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I prefer to keep conversations together and usually respond on my talk page, so watch the page for my reply.

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A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For your efforts with respect to students. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:51, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Man, it's a killer in here :) Thanks, Doc. I do it as long as I can, and then ... leave. It is just too discouraging to spend all of one's time cleaning up bad edits after editors who never return. I always liked mentoring new editors, because of the payoff in turning them into good contributors, but there is no payout here, either in content or in developing new editors. We have ill-prepared, under-supervised kids adding medical content to one of the world's top websites. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:58, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Maybe we/they could be using some input from here... 86.164.164.29 (talk) 21:15, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

On that User:WhatamIdoing has a list of gaps in basic nursing concepts such a class ought to be able to helpfully add to. Wiki CRUK John (talk) 14:41, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

"Helpfully add to" the website involves engaging the website. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:46, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Here's a fortunate example, I think, of a student who seems to display internal as well as external motivation. 86.164.164.29 (talk) 15:33, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

If that's not a username violation, it ought to be. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:17, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Somehow, some people just love pessimism--and manage to create negativity absolutely uselessly. --Jelly Bean MD (talk) 17:46, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Jelly Bean MD; nice to meet you! Would you agree that, per Misplaced Pages:Username policy, presenting yourself as an MD when you're not is misleading? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:50, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps--yet the deception will soon be over! --Jelly Bean MD (talk) 17:53, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Well Sandy, while I understand the frustrations you've been experiencing in cleaning up after poorly-prepared classes, I think any gf breach of WP guidelines/processes, such as the one you've mooted here, must be readily sortable. Whereas acquiring and retaining good contributors to MED, including the highly relevant Translation task force, isn't always quite so easy... Personally, I believe good new editors like Jelly Bean deserve all the support we can give them (irrespective of whatever...!). Best, 86.164.164.29 (talk) 15:20, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

This page is a policy. Did you know that Bill Moyers (a published author in the healthcare field) showed up to edit schizophrenia? (Is Jelly also part of the "cleaning up after poorly-prepared classes"? If so, I was unware.) Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:30, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Leaving aside the usual strawman... Sandy, a straight query: Do you believe we already have a sufficient population/reserve of good MED editors? (I, for one, don't.) If not, shouldn't we be encouraging (rather than biting) promising newcomers? A separate example... This contribution to Talk:Obesity (by an apparently new editor named Orthopedicfootwear) seemed to me to be excellent and highly pertinent. Perhaps because the comment didn't actually oppose any existing content, it hadn't elicited any response. When I went to the new editor's talk page to see how the user had been welcomed, I found this. Oh yes, WP:Whatever... But is this really a desirable first approach to a new, worthwhile contributor if we want to promote the best possible reliable medical information on Misplaced Pages? And especially looking to the future...

More generally, I don't think it's necessary to speak ill of the deceased to recognise a paradoxical situation in which Misplaced Pages is, in certain respects, making itself both beneficiary and prisoner to its own processes and most hard-working editors. And, please don't misunderstand me Sandy, I don't mean anything personal by that aimed at you: it's the underlying mechanisms that concern me rather than particular individuals. I'm just taking advantage here of the hospitality of your talk page to raise matters that I feel really need discussing elsewhere... perhaps at WT:MED? 86.164.164.29 (talk) 16:49, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

We don't have enough "good" editors in most content areas-- why single out MED? Well, because bad medical content is dangerous, and we should have a BLP-style policy, but I don't think that's what you're getting at.

In the instance you give with orthopedicfootwear, it looks to me like someone might have welcomed the user before querying the name; I'm wondering if you've taken that up with Pcfan500? In this case, Jelly Bean has been editing quite a while, so I don't feel that politely asking about his username is BITEY. And I do think that presenting as an MD, when one is not, is a bit more serious than the example you give of footwear.

No problem raising discussion on my talk-- I enjoy it !

Now, I can give you recent examples of behaviors I find more troubling in deterring new editors. The example of a premature GA promotion thrust what looks to me to be like a promising new student editor into a difficult spot unnecessarily. When folks advocating for the Education Program impose different standards on students than other editors, they do them/us no favors. I'm seeing that daily in interactions that make it harder to talk with the students and hopefully retain them as editors. It is sometimes to the point of condescension ... as if, because they are students, they can't digest the real guideline, policy-based interaction in here ! Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:00, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Sandy, I appreciate that. (And I do appreciate that the education settings generally constitute special case/s.) Why MED? Why indeed... good question! Well, I suppose because this topic area seems especially challenging and relevant. And also because the MED situation may be particularly marked (representative?). The current reliance on a handful (or a few handfuls, no more) of particularly committed editors. And with lots of good intentions for fostering good new editors, including outreach events and excellent presentations, coupled with an on-wiki environment that (unintentionally) doesn't always seem the most welcoming. So, yes I do feel that having a MED conversation on this is good. And I'm afraid I rather laboured Doc James and Johnbod, together with Hydra Rain (who has a particular interest in these questions), on such concerns for the best part of an evening at Wikimania. 86.164.164.29 (talk) 18:05, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not so certain I'm ready to agree that MED is different from other content areas in this respect.

The other content area where I have invested huge amounts of time is Venezuela-related topics, and the problem there is much worse than at MED. In the Venezuela case, there is a small handful of editors (although the makeup of that small group has changed over the years) who diligently OWN and preserve pro-Chavez POV to the point that one can't even get a well-justified POV tag to stick, and no matter the stream of new editors who appear to challenge the poor sourcing and POV, they are met with hostility and chased out. I've seen the same thing happen in another, completely different content area, involving POV on an FA biography.

In what ways do you think there is a MED problem, rather than a Misplaced Pages problem? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:11, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

My normal stomping-ground in the visual arts has also a handful of key editors, probably a smaller one, and from looking at other areas of science when I was at the Royal Society for the first part of the year, and trying to stir up interest in stuff, I'd say the Medical WikiProject & its talk page is one of the most active - possibly the most active - of these after MilHist. Fortunately art is mostly uncontroversial in wiki terms. Wiki CRUK John (talk) 18:25, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that Med had an untypically scanty number of (highly-committed) editors – rather that it's a particularly/intrinsically challenging content area. 86.164.164.29 (talk) 19:03, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Apparently the "thanks" button is not activated for IPs, so thanks for the auguri. Off to bed with my cough. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:07, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Feliz Navidad

	<font=3> Wishing you a "Feliz Navidad and a Prospero Año Nuevo" (Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year) Tony the Marine (talk) External audio Jose Feliciano's "Feliz Navidad "

Epale, Marine 69-71, tanto tiempo sin hablar !! Felicidades en esta epoca tan bella tambien para ti y los tuyos. Saludos, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Pings

Hi Sandy, I don't know what the problem is but your ping to me at WT:FAR didn't reach me... Bencherlite 18:55, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Weird ... second time you've reported that. I don't know what to do. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:01, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Ping doesn't work when you do this. It only works when the edit that adds the ping also adds the signature of the sender. DrKiernan (talk) 20:32, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Thx for letting me know, I tried again. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:44, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Seems it didn't work that time either, for Bencherlite. I can't see what the problem is but the rules for notifications are complex - they only seem to operate if you ping the editor just so. Hope you get well soon! DrKiernan (talk) 09:05, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks DrKiernan. I guess all I can do is ... I dunno! Thanks for the well wishes-- I definitely got the flu, in spite of having gotten the shot. Bummer for my holiday plans :( I will get over to the FAR discussion as soon as I finish dragging my sorry corpse through my watchlist. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:07, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

For someone who's got the flu you seem still to do a remarkable amount of editorial work. Do get well soon, Sandy! 109.158.8.201 (talk) 18:18, 17 December 2014 (UTC) ex- 86.164.164.29

Well, I had a gazillion other things I shoulda been doing today, to prep for the holidays, but editing the WP beats staring at the ceiling and sniffling and coughing ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Glad you found good cause to award a barnstar to one of the students (who knows if internal motivation will take over at some stage too...). 109.158.8.201 (talk) 21:57, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

She really got short-changed on the GAN, but she handled the whole thing well. If she does stick around, it would be grand! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:02, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Sympathy

	Feel better soon
	I hope that you feel better soon. I suggest adding a good dollop of honey to this mint tea; there's more evidence for honey soothing a cough than for dextromethorphan doing anything. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:12, 18 December 2014 (UTC)