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This article has been mentioned by a media organization: Sharon Coolidge (30 December 2014). "Transgender teen: 'My death needs to mean something'". The Cincinnati Enquirer. By Tuesday evening, Leelah's story had become a worldwide story - one of how transgender teens often feel alone and afraid. The hashtag #LeelahAlcorn was topping Twitter; news sites worldwide had picked up the story; and someone had even created a Misplaced Pages page for Alcorn.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Leelah Alcorn article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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Name

Six of the twelve sources referenced in this article do not appear to meet Misplaced Pages's reference standards as per:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Help:Introduction_to_referencing/4

The other six sources specify the (birth) names, ages, and bare bones facts of Alcorn's death (that Alcorn was hit by a truck, taken to hospital, and died; in Union Township, Ohio) but do not confirm details such as Alcorn's transgender-ism, the behavior of Alcorn's friends or family, the environment in which Alcorn was raised, the authenticity of the referenced suicide note, etc. Four of these legitimate sources are referenced only as examples of allegedly incorrect reporting, but there is no legitimate source that contradicts them.

There is no referenced source that demonstrates a preference of Alcorn's for female pronouns; all legitimate sources refer to Alcorn as male.

Can appropriate sources be identified and referenced?

All legitimate sources refer to Alcorn by the forename 'Joshua', yet the article is titled 'Leelah Alcorn'. Can the subject be said to be most well known as 'Leelah' as per Misplaced Pages's naming conventions for people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28people%29

AS76 (talk) 14:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

She is well-known in transgender communities on Reddit and Tumblr as Leelah, where she went by the usernames, 'nostalgiaprincess' and 'lazerprincess' respectively. Her parents didn't accept her as transgender, so in the death announcement they used her legal (male) name. She only saw Christian therapists, as per her suicide note and her reddit account, so I doubt there will be any 'legitimate' source by *your* standards. However, self-published sources are allowed for articles about the publisher, and this includes social media posts according to Misplaced Pages:SOCIALMEDIA. That should be enough to verify that she preferred female pronouns and went by the name Leelah. - erisrenee (talk) 16:18, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Only being transgendered on reddit and tumblr doesn't really count as being transgendered. That's rather silly, and sort of an insult to the many people who have the bravery to go out through life and actually go through the process of transition as an adult. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reality156 (talk • contribs) 18:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I've just added a link to her suicide note on tumblr since it is a primary source, as opposed to the articles about the suicide note (which I did not remove because they add a bit of legitimacy to the note). The articles remove some important formatting from the note, and I feel it is worth linking to the original source. - erisrenee (talk) 16:27, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

per WP:MOS:IDENTITY An exception to the above is made for terms relating to gender identity. In such cases, Misplaced Pages favors self-designation, even when usage by reliable sources indicates otherwise. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Direct quotations may need to be handled as exceptions (in some cases adjusting the portion used may reduce apparent contradictions, and "" may be used where necessary).. Therefore the subject shall still be referenced as a female. However the subjects gender is notable and therefore shouldn't be removed bc of emotional reasons copypasta from the pronoun discussion — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.152.145.66 (talk • contribs)

'online social justice community'

Would it be right to say that the news of Leelah's death received attention from the 'online social justice community', as such?

I ask because I and one of my close friends were amongst the pioneers in spreading the word of her death, and both of us are very empathetically not members of the online social justice community, nor are many of the people who are discussing and raising awareness of this (though, of course, many are). This is because 'social justice' in this context has a very specific meaning, referring to a set of beliefs that many disagree with, some of which are extremist and even transphobic. It would be inaccurate and really rather insulting to those who participate in Leelah Alcorn-related activism but are not part of that community to characterize all of them as members of it.

I changed that to 'transgender community and allies'. Reddon666 (talk) 17:17, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Article

People writing/editing this article, it could be useful to have a look over some of these previous "Suicide of..." articles: Category:Students_who_committed_suicide. — Jeraphine Gryphon  18:55, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Also, I know it can be difficult but the article should be written in an encyclopedic tone, and not like a memorial. — Jeraphine Gryphon  18:56, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

It's early on. It'll be more polished with revision. - erisrenee (talk) 19:16, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I have attempted to improve the article with a more neutral, encyclopedic tone.

AS76 (talk) 21:41, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

That article could be renamed "Suicide of Leelah Alcorn". We should wait and see if there is mainstream media coverage to keep or remove this article : take the Kenneth Weishuhn article as an example. Also we should be careful not to encourage suicide with posthumous celebrity. --Ardeau (talk) 21:26, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Since this person never actually transititoned, was a minor, and never changed their name anywhere besides tumblr, why are they consistently being referred to as "Leelah?" Their legal name is Joshua. Either delete the article or make it searchable under both names. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reality156 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Check the top of the talk page. Misplaced Pages defers to the subject's latest gender identity for identification. I'll probably create a redirect if one isn't already created. Joshua Alcorn has already been created and redirects to this article. Tutelary (talk) 18:37, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Notability

No offence intended of course, but is this person really notable? I wasn't under the impression that anyone who killed themselves is granted a spot on Misplaced Pages. Mugsalot (talk) 22:13, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Her death is causing a lot of outrage on social media and in news outlets. It's becoming quite an issue and is raising awareness of how Conversion therapy is harmful. We'll have to see how it develops in the future but I think it's worth having a Misplaced Pages article. It seems like it fits WP:GNG - erisrenee (talk) 22:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

"BLP1E comes to mind but YMMV --Guerillero | My Talk 22:50, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Moving the article to Death of Leelah Alcorn or Suicide of Leelah Alcorn would fix that. Silverseren 23:21, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, that might be a good compromise. It all comes down to how notable this event turns out to be. Right now it seems pretty notable but we'll have to see how it develops. - erisrenee (talk) 23:24, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

That it's causing "a lot of outrage" does not quantify how notable this person is. Couldn't she have been included in a list? I'm sorry if I come off as ignorant and rude. I just joined the conversation half-blind, to be sincere. Meşteşugarul - U 23:54, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

There are several similar victims that have committed suicide due to bullying, and many of them have Misplaced Pages pages (see List of suicides which have been attributed to bullying). This article is obviously new and still undeveloped, but I do not see how this case is any less noteworthy than any of those teens. - erisrenee (talk) 01:06, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

This has not generated the notoriety or cultural impact to even add a mention on an article on Misplaced Pages, much less its own article. Quit with the twitch article creation just because the media reports on it for a day. There were 40,000 suicides in the US in 2012 alone. Misplaced Pages:Notability_(events)#Breaking_news — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.136.128.218 (talk) 03:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. I've said plenty of deep things myself, but since I haven't committed suicide, I don't deserve a wikipedia page? In that case, there should be a wikipedia page for each meme and viral video. GGWP — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.165.82.120 (talk) 04:18, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree with changing it to "Suicide of" or "Death of." Her death has inspired the Transgender Human Rights Institute to begin a campaign for Leelah's Law, which will ban conversion therapy. <refhttp://www.transviolencetracker.org/index.php/press-releases/116-leelah-acorn-suicide-a-call-to-end-conversion-therapy></ref> Also, according to the article's deletion page, someone removed the "Reaction" section of the article. Removing that section makes this article seem like it is merely derived from outrage. Millodactyl (talk) 06:13, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Name+pronouns

Reactions - School

How about adding the reaction of the school? Short after her death they posted an eulogy on the front page rotator. After the suicide note (and subsequently the information of her being transgender) got public, they removed the eulogy (including the note of available counseling for students) from the front page rotator and the news side alltogether. Mela (talk) 18:07, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for this information? If so, we could add it in its proportion to due weight. Tutelary (talk) 18:21, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't have a source which is why I didn't include that in the reaction section. However, I did see this happen personally, and there are screenshots available online. What actually happened is that prior to the suicide note the school misgendered her and had a picture of her as "Joshua" on the homepage. After the news came out that she is transgender and prefers the name Leela, they took it down. They have not put up a new announcement, but there will be a candlelight vigil at the school on Saturday. The school's official position on this matter is still unknown and should not be commented about on this wikipedia page until it becomes known. - erisrenee (talk) 18:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately we can't add stuff to the Misplaced Pages page unless it can be cited to a source. Given that this is a big event and there's lots of media coverage, I'm sure some source will cover it and we could add it to the page. Until then, we're out of luck--no matter how much we want to. Tutelary (talk) 18:51, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

That's a good policy. I've added as a source for the reaction section which, in addition to covering the support from social media, includes information that the school held a moment of silence, offering counceling, and that there will be a candlelight vigil. However, I was not sure how to word that in a neutral tone that would be suitable for wikipedia. - erisrenee (talk) 18:58, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately nothing reliable. Only my own research. I saw the screenshots (mentioned above by erisrenee) and went to the school's site. The eulogy wasn't longer there. I used the site search and found remains of it still in the search cache but already deleted on the pages mentioned in the search. I took two screenshots ( and ) and by now even the search results are free of any mention of her death. Mela (talk) 21:39, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2014

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Hello. I would like to request that you change "Christian therapy" to "conversion therapy" or "Christian conversion therapy" please. It's important to have a name to put to the horrible, horrible shit she went through and they are trying to get conversion therapy illegalized in Ohio, from my awareness, so it would be good to have this sourced to that page.

Thank you for writing about her and thank you for protecting the edits. <3 Ijustlovetea (talk) 03:43, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. If you could provide a source that describes the therapy she received specifically as conversion therapy, I would be happy to make that change, but from what I can tell the only currently available source is her note on Tumblr, in which she does not make it explicitly clear that the Christian therapists she was taken to see were attempting to "convert" her. Instead, it says she did not receive therapy for depression, which suggests she was seeing them for that purpose instead. Cannolis (talk) 04:29, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

She posted on Reddit months back about the conversion therapy and abuse, saying "I wanted to see a gender therapist but they wouldn't let me, they thought it would corrupt my mind. The would only let me see biased Christian therapists, who instead of listening to my feelings would try to change me into a straight male who loved God, and I would cry after every session because I felt like it was hopeless and there was no way I would ever become a girl." Is this considered a valid source, or do we need to wait for an article to be written about it? - erisrenee (talk) 14:52, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Not a valid source for now, there's no confirmation that this was indeed her, whereas the tumblr account and suicide note has been referenced by several news outlets. Should wait for a third party to confirm it, though once it is confirmed, should be fine to refer to it as conversion therapy. Cannolis (talk) 17:49, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree. On the other hand I hope that news sources don't pick up on her reddit account. The transgender subreddits are prone to harassment as it is and we don't need more attention on there from critics. I'd love to see an investigation into these so-called "therapists" she was sent to. - erisrenee (talk) 18:47, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

When you search for "christian therapy for homosexuality wiki" you arrive at conversion therapy. I think it's pretty clear that's what she meant. Perhaps, "Christian therapy, often understood to be conversion therapy." Because her description of what she went through matches the wiki description of conversion therapy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:9:4880:3600:7583:99AE:5727:D822 (talk) 00:06, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2014

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Leelah Alcorn (November 15, 1997 – December 28, 2014) was an American transgender girl who gained attention in 2014 after committing suicide. A suicide note was published (>EDIT<  ::PLEASE ADD:: ---->) posthumously on her Tumblr page; in this letter she declared that she wanted her suicide to cause an impact and create a dialogue about the discrimination and abuse of transgender people. Neonblueclock (talk) 04:13, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Mdann52talk to me! 08:06, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Here is the reference to the suicide note. Cherryoftheinfinitives (talk) 15:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2014

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In the opening sentence, please change "...after committing suicide TO MAKE a statement about..." to "...after committing suicide AND making a statement about...". Leelah did not commit suicide specifically to make a statement, and saying so invalidates the difficult personal struggles that actually led to her death. Kiproy (talk) 04:35, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Done. Reddon666 (talk) 05:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2014

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Change all of the male pronouns to female pronouns. Leelah Alcorn was a female. Tsukiteacups (talk) 06:48, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

 Done. WWGB (talk) 06:55, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2014

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The article consistently misgenders Leelah. I would like to fix that. Sweetie12434 (talk) 06:53, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

 Done. WWGB (talk) 06:55, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2014

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please removeCause of death Suicide by vehicular impact, this is unconfirmed and simply assumed. 82.43.107.149 (talk) 13:09, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Not done: http://www.fox19.com/story/27717471/pedestrian-struck-killed-on-i-71 would seem to disagree with you. — {{U|Technical 13}} 13:26, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Every source calls it a suicide and also every source says she died after getting hit by a vehicle, therefor the cause of death was suicide by vehicular impact. — Jeraphine Gryphon  13:32, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Spam

Approximately 2.5 million people a year die in the United States. The subject of a teen being transgender is unremarkable. Troubled teens are not new or newsworthy. This is a single newscycle event with no social implication other than status quo. The Misplaced Pages article on an unremarkable teenager with the information known is simply LGBT spam, otherwise Misplaced Pages should publish the suicide pages for all teens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.50.99 (talk) 17:23, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

This event is notable not because she died, or even that she committed suicide, but because of the widespread news coverage that it has attracted. Plenty of transgender people commit suicide, but few get the media attention that this one has. - erisrenee (talk) 17:32, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

"Widespread news coverage" is not a litmus test for Misplaced Pages. News coverage in and of itself is not remarkable unless the subject is remarkable. At this point in time the subject is ordinary.71.105.50.99 (talk) 17:47, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Take a gander at WP:GNG. Tutelary (talk) 18:19, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Nominate this page for speedy deletion

news coverage or not, this is just another rebellious teen who didn't get her way so she killed herself. 207.98.188.175 (talk) 06:32, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Notability is not a criteria for speedy deletion. WP:NOTCSD - erisrenee (talk) 07:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Even aside from trivializing her situation, the news coverage in this situation is in fact worthy of note in a dedicated article, not to mention such things as the petitions aiming to pass Leelah's Law illegalizing reparative therapy and the like. Also, notability is not a speedy deletion criteria. Reddon666 (talk) 10:21, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

LGBT phobia

If this article is deleted We are going to fight for it, is just horrible to see how badly are the people reacting when she is becoming a symbol for the silent ones who are not here and wanted but were not allowed to. My support to Leelah, and I will spread to all wikipedia users to protect the freedom of speech and make what Leelah wanted for our LGBT community.

Rubashkyn (talk) 10:33, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

More sources

I'm sorry I don't have the capacity to work on this article myself, but using more legit news sources could help save this article from deletion. Here's one, it was posted on CNN today, there's an interview with Alcorn's mother: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/31/us/ohio-transgender-teen-suicide/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Feel free to add more links here if you've found some but don't yet know how to integrate them into the article. — Jeraphine Gryphon  10:21, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

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