User talk:Xenophrenic: Difference between revisions

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	::You didn't breach 3RR at any single article, but had 43 reverts of the same category in a short time, sometimes multiple times at the same article. Starting the discussion after your first attempt has been reverted is ''not'' an excuse to continue the reverts at the same time (though it is at least better than continuing to revert without any discussion at all of course). And when you start a CfD which ends in no consensus with "The suggestion of Category:Religious persecution by secular governments given below is, I suggest, a good one. I suggest all editors who have commented here work towards moving this category to something approaching that one, because as given, the current title is frankly original research." as recommendation, then that doesn't give you the right to a blanket removal of the category. The least you could have done was replace it with the suggested one, so that you at least gave the appearance of accepting the CfD conclusion. But what you did now may have felt to you as if it was supported by the CfD, but to an uninvolved bystander looks as if you wanted to implement your preferred outcome of the CfD against the actual closure. Either start another CfD where you propose renaming the category to something along the lines of the CfD closure, or leave this well alone. Good night. ] (]) 14:23, 14 February 2017 (UTC)		::You didn't breach 3RR at any single article, but had 43 reverts of the same category in a short time, sometimes multiple times at the same article. Starting the discussion after your first attempt has been reverted is ''not'' an excuse to continue the reverts at the same time (though it is at least better than continuing to revert without any discussion at all of course). And when you start a CfD which ends in no consensus with "The suggestion of Category:Religious persecution by secular governments given below is, I suggest, a good one. I suggest all editors who have commented here work towards moving this category to something approaching that one, because as given, the current title is frankly original research." as recommendation, then that doesn't give you the right to a blanket removal of the category. The least you could have done was replace it with the suggested one, so that you at least gave the appearance of accepting the CfD conclusion. But what you did now may have felt to you as if it was supported by the CfD, but to an uninvolved bystander looks as if you wanted to implement your preferred outcome of the CfD against the actual closure. Either start another CfD where you propose renaming the category to something along the lines of the CfD closure, or leave this well alone. Good night. ] (]) 14:23, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
			:::], as an uninvolved bystander, you wouldn't be expected to know the actual details behind this matter, only how things "appear". So some things should be made clear at the outset:
			:::→ I'd never use "starting a discussion" as an excuse to continue reverting. The reason I re-removed the category after the discussion was because there was no longer a reason not to.
			:::→ I'd never cite that CfD as "giving me the right to a blanket removal of a category". If you'll look closer at my edit summaries, they stated: ''rvt insertion of unsourced; (and this article isn't being specifically discussed at the linked discussion).'' I removed the problematic categories because they were <u>unsourced</u>, in violation of ], and specifically <u>not</u> because of that discussion.
			:::→ I haven't "started" a CfD (Marcocapelle did), and it didn't end in "no consensus" -- it ended with: '''No consensus - with caveats.'''

			:::I'm not sure what the significance of 40+ reverts in a short time is in your argument, Fram. The problematic nonsense category was ] created by Jobas on November 10, 2015, apparently as payback in his with another editor who was tagging articles with ], and he tagged 40+ articles with it in under an hour. Those articles have subsequently had the category removed over time since it was completely unsourced in violation of Misplaced Pages policy, and by the time Marcocapelle initiated the CfD, the category was empty. I see that you have advised Jobas, "This doesn't mean that you can go to all the articles where you were edit warring and revert them to your version because he is still blocked." He didn't need to. As soon as I was blocked, his meatpuppets took care of that (see edits starting where the problematic category was again re-inserted in 40+ articles in under 20 minutes). Is that also of significance? I suspect the answer to that has more to do with the preferences of the admin witnessing it than with the action itself.

			:::Regards, ] (]) 14:24, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

	== Notice of AN/I Discussion ==		== Notice of AN/I Discussion ==

Revision as of 14:25, 15 February 2017

Notice to posters: Let's try to keep two-way conversations readable. If you post to my talk page, I will just reply here. If I posted recently to another talk page, including your talk page, then that means I have it on my watchlist and will just read responses there. I may also refactor discussions to your talk page for the same reason. Thanks. Xenophrenic (Talk)

Incivility: I reserve the right to remove uncivil or disruptive comments and/or threads from this talk page.

Spam: I also reserve the right to delete any bulk messages that I regard as spamming.

Helen Caldicott

I was just wondering where the February 20th came from in the reference you added. I don't see that date on the webpage and the retrieval date in any case would be today. Thanks in advance for your response. --Daffydavid (talk) 01:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, David. The Feb. 20 date isn't a retrieval date, which I didn't add. It's just one of several "page-updated" dates provided by tools (domain origin, website archiving, Google page cache indexing...) indicating the existance of that "advisory-council" information at that date. I was unfortunately unable to find the exact date the webpage was created, or the earliest date when Caldicott was added to the webpage. She has certainly been on their Advisory Council since before February 2014. Here's a 2012 video of her, for example, which describes her in the info-tab as a member of their Advisory Council. If you can find more specific information, please don't hesitate to add it. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 17:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Ian Stevenson

Hi there, regarding this: indeed, I had misread the text. The article says that Huxley was known for the advocacy, not Stevenson. Sorry, thanks and cheers. - DVdm (talk) 13:00, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

No apologies necessary; and thanks for the attention to detail! Xenophrenic (talk) 17:02, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Jane Fonda

Note that although footnote 48, the Plebe Summer ... Procedures, is a dead link, there's a valid archive available at Wayback confirming that "Good Night Jane Fonda" calls are expressly prohibited. While the military is often criticized for unnecessary paperwork, it seems unlikely that even they would trouble to so specifically prohibit something that had no significant history of occurring. 2600:1006:B10A:9AF1:5AD:4287:E314:1B02 (talk) 06:58, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

That's a very valid point, and is just one of several reasons I left the content in the article. Another reason is that although the source is "anonymous", Burke knows who the source is and apparently trusts it enough to repeat the story. BTW, thanks for the header edit. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 07:45, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Have you tried WP:BLPN ?

The choice of WP:ANI was a reasonable one to report the IP, but the biographies of living persons noticeboard is probably a better place for issues about defamatory posts. However, I think that, in the specific case, the best option is semi-protection of the article, which I will request in a few minutes. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:33, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

By the way, I think that the editor in question has four edits, not six, because I think that the 'banana' vandal was someone else. However, that is not important. We need to prevent the insertion of questionable defamatory material. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:33, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

I trust

you now understand my consistent positions on BLPs even if sometimes it means "bad guys" don't get buckets of s*** piled into articles? Heck I even edited Kim Jong-un. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:08, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Salutations, Collect! You and I have recently been in agreement on several different BLP articles; it must surely be a sign of the end times. Do pigs now fly, and hath Hell frozen over as well?

You need not clarify your positions on BLPs with me. To the contrary, I have told you how I admire your generally conservative approach in upholding our BLP policies about disparagement of living people in our articles. The only inconsistency I've observed is that you do not appear to have the same regard for the living people who edit Misplaced Pages. I've raised this issue with you before regarding your piling of buckets of unsubstantiated s*** upon me here and here, yet you showed no willingness to rectify the situation. "No animus", indeed.

How is it, Collect, that you can be remarkably astute at carefully examining cited sources in a BLP and recognize "No, the sources do not say that", yet you can so carelessly assemble a collection of diffs and comments and wrongly conclude about an editor, "He seeks to make sure that people know how evil the Tea Party movement is, that it is racist, bigoted, homophobic etc."? You came here concerned that I not misunderstand your positions on BLPs; has it occurred to you that other editors may also be concerned that their positions not be misunderstood or mischaracterized? If you have (correctly) sensed a certain curtness and restrained congeniality in our interactions, please know that it is this inconsistency at the root of it. Eighteen months ago, I suggested that we address your misunderstanding and attempt to take advantage of an "opportunity for bridge rebuilding"; that never came to pass, but the offer doesn't come with an expiration date. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 18:42, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

On the TPm material - I saw patterns from some editors which I still do not feel in concord with Misplaced Pages policies - we shall simply disagree at times, but please note that I have never had any sort of "enemies list" at all. I note you point to a NYP section where one editor enters with ""a bunch of damn bullshit" as his commentary, which I found a tad more dismissive that any language I had ever used. Indeed, I found a few of your comments to be an inch less than civil, and a few of your positions which impacted living persons to fall outside the bounds of WP:BLP and I ask that you recognize I could reasonably so view some of your edits. Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

You speak of "some editors"; I can't really comment on them, nor of any "enemy lists" — my concern here was specifically about you and me in the situation I linked above. In short, you levelled seriously inaccurate charges about me back in 2013, then after you were shown that your comments about me were completely unsubstantiated — and in some cases completely opposite to reality — you chose to let the false statements stand unrectified. Granted, I may not have chosen the best venue in which to approach you about correcting your misstatements, as another editor's remarks already had you on the defensive, but I don't see that as justification since you mentioned me there first. You ask that I "recognize you could reasonably view some of my edits as outside the bounds of WP:BLP"? I've rechecked the edits you posted on your Talk page back in September 2013, as well as the couple edits you posted with your RfC/U entry, and no reasonable person could view any of those as violating our BLP policy. If you are thinking of some other edit of mine, perhaps you could remind me of it? Xenophrenic (talk) 20:40, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

I think is the diff at issue? I regret the misunderstanding -- the IP however sure was showing a decided POV inconsonant with WP:BLP as I am sure you agree. Cheers. Collect (talk) 19:03, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

As that diff shows, it was the IP making the case "There are many media reports clearly showing that the Tea Partiers are racist", while I had to remind the IP editor that it was wrong to label TPers as racist. I reasonably and accurately observed that there was "significant enough reliably sourced information to explore the frequently heard allegations of a racist component", which we are required to do as editors when facing such voluminous reliable sources — as any reasonable editor would agree. Anyway, having one's motivations and actions mischaracterized is no fun, as I'm sure you can attest. Since your comments about me were made so long ago, I'll accept your "I regret the misunderstanding" and pretend you meant it to apply to all of the similar misstatements from that same episode — and we'll consider the matter done. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 20:40, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

PNAC

You might look at Project for the New American Century moreover - I know we are apt at times to disagree, but I think you might find the discussions interesting. Collect (talk) 09:32, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I took a look. I count myself lucky that I didn't jump into that mess right away, as reports, blocks and a lot of drama followed soon after. Rather happy I missed it. Xenophrenic (talk) 20:40, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

new essay

The ArbCom case against me is vexatious indeed - I shall not contend against those who taste blood. The main complaint even includes my essays - so I wrote one which I hope you will appreciate WP:Misplaced Pages and shipwrights. It would be fun to see how others react, indeed. Warm regards, Collect (talk) 04:25, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing that essay to my attention. Generally good overall, and an interesting read. I must admit I found myself taking your 'shipwrights' analogy further in my mind, imagining the roles and impact of various other unmentioned, but equally important, people involved in making the "craft which will sail straight and true on the oceans and rivers of the world". The foremen, tasked with keeping the shipwrights working together productively; the suppliers, from whom the shipwrights obtain their raw materials; the dock workers, who try to keep the shipyard uncluttered and free from debris, etc. I'm tempted to play with that in a sandbox somewhere. As for the ArbCom case(s), it appears one particular colleague had both of us in his sights. I'm fortunate that he was only shooting blanks when he took aim at me, and I was therefore never named as a party. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 20:40, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Hiya

Copied here to facilitate continuation of the discussion.
Hi, MavsFan28 - it's been a while since we chatted. I hope you've been well. I know you left a comment on the Tom Smith article Talk page, and I do plan to respond to you there, but this is about a different (but related) issue not appropriate for that Talk page. I figured you and IP:100.14.57.197 were the same editor. You made this edit while logged in and as the IP you made the identical edit, and you've edit warred to keep that edit as both. Not logging in isn't a big problem in itself, but when you left a comment with an edit summary stating (See talk page before either of you revert), you implied that the IP user isn't you. If the IP is you, then you have violated Misplaced Pages's policy regarding abusive WP:sockpuppetry. Perhaps you were unaware of that policy? If so, please let me know, and we can just overlook it this time. If you tell me that the IP isn't yours, however, I'll be obliged to file a WP:SPI report as a routine matter. It's a tedious process, so I should apologize for it in advance, but I'd be very interested to know how it could be coincidental that at least 21 of the 30 articles edited by the IP are also edited by you. I see you edit many articles about Pennsylvania politics and sports subjects, and the IP geolocates to Pennsylvania, so I'm sure you can understand my reasoning. Seeing the IP make edits just hours after the MavsFan28 account in obscure areas like the Ken Ham Talk page RfC just further emphasizes the point. Anyway, your input in this matter would be appreciated. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 04:58, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi there! I'm aware of the policy. I make plenty of edits logged in and out without violating the policy. I didn't think the other edit where the sentence was removed in full was appropriate as well as the other edit on the first sentence hence the "both." In regards to some of the edits you speak of though, we have a shared college dorm where our IPs all get bounced around and therefore they are constantly changing and I wouldn't even know all the IPs I have edited under would be. If you think I did something that violated the policy, feel free to file the report. However, please when you have a chance, do respond at that talk page about how the current lead does not fall properly in line with almost all wiki politican's articles or how it doesn't go with WP:LeadSentence. Thanks 50.196.53.209 (talk) 14:47, 12 November 2015 (UTC) Also MavsFan28 (talk) 14:48, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I (personally) have no problem with you editing both while logged in and logged out. Just so long as you aren't doing so to intentionally deceive, or to circumvent Misplaced Pages policy (i.e.; WP:3RR). That's why I brought it up. Editing while logged into a registered account is probably the best way to avoid the problems caused by shared college dorm-mates. I've left comments on the article Talk page for you, and I see that you have joined me there. Hopefully, we can resolve any outstanding issues. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 18:24, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I know what you mean. But I wouldn't use one of many random IPs that I access to sockpuppet in anyway, otherwise I would have done that in our discussion on the talk page. :) Understand your point though. On that article though, what's the next step? Obviously we aren't agreeing on this, so do we get someone else to bring their opinion? MavsFan28 (talk) 01:22, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Think on that discussion, we'll have to agree to disagree, and go with the lead you suggested for now. I thought it could be solved by at least one other person jumping in on the discussion, but no one has seemed to notice or care. Anyway, I'm fine with that change being made. Thanks MavsFan28 (talk) 02:14, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Alright, I'll implement the change. It's a low-traffic article; even more so now that the subject is deceased, so the lack of participation is not surprising. I agree that more participation would have been a good thing. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 17:33, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Iraq Veterans Against the War

Heyo Xenophrenic. I added the content per this AfD discussion as a possibly searchable term. If not entirely, do mention Ricky Clousing briefly. Cheers, Ya sh ! 17:44, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Yash! I reviewed that deletion discussion (and the previous one) before reverting your edit. I also looked at the one cited source which mentions IVAW, and saw that it does not support the content that "Clousing is a member of IVAW." It appears that the editors in that deletion discussion automatically assumed that the content was properly sourced; it was not. According to reliable sources, several groups agreed with, "stood behind" or supported Clousing's actions, but he is not described as a member of any of the groups. If his Misplaced Pages article is to be merged into another article, an appropriate target article needs to be found. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 18:31, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

My apologies, Xenophrenic. I should have checked. I will see if it can be merged somewhere else. Thank you for your time. Regards, Ya sh ! 18:34, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Tea Party

You might want to note the similarities in the arguments made by Efliv23 and those of Catsmeow8989. Just something I noticed. GAB 18:45, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I've definitely noticed. They are the same person, or equally bad: congenitally joined meatpuppet twins. Seriously considering enlisting assistance at WP:ANI. Xenophrenic (talk) 19:05, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Keep me posted -- I'll gladly help out if needed. GAB 19:17, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

I am taking this to SPI as I speak. Hoping for the best... Link is here. If you have any more evidence, feel free to share it there. GAB 17:06, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for that, GAB. I added a little to the report, but it appears that you covered it well enough. I hope the holidays are finding you in good spirits! Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 19:06, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Anytime -- you, too! GAB 00:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Holy smokes! I just checked the SPI, and I never expected a world of sleepers. Gotta love CU. GAB 00:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, that kind of investment in spare sock accounts was unexpected, and makes me suspect that it won't be very long before he visits us again. Thanks again for the assistance. (BTW - I clicked on that YouTube link out of curiosity, and put on some headphones to briefly see what it was. An hour later I realized I was still listening to it...) Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 16:38, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

(A new convert! Success!) GAB 22:07, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

College degrees and biographic infoboxes

Greetings. I noticed that you had undid my edits on Hillary Clinton and John Kerry, specifically the ones that had included their respective degrees. I've since reverted them, but I'm opening discussion here, in case there's disagreement.

I had felt that the inclusion of the degrees was consistent with that of quite a few other notables (Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H. W. Bush, John F. Kennedy, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Colin Powell, James Baker, Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Ben Carson, the list could go on). Perhaps you may think otherwise?

Looking forward to your thoughts. GabeIglesia (talk) 14:06, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings, GabeIglesia! Inclusion of education degrees (and fields of study; and institution names; and alma mater) in the infoboxes is certainly useful, as long as the info is placed in the correct fields. I hope you would agree. We wouldn't expect to see that a person's spouse=Harvard University, or that a person's alma mater=Bachelor of Arts. I understand the problem isn't as obviously apparent when we're talking about misplacing degree information in the alma mater field, as the two are tangentially related — but it is still a problem. You certainly aren't the first to make this mistake (as evidenced by the many examples you provided). On the Kerry example alone, the problem is frequent. See here, and before that here, here, and here. User:Swagger14 and User:Spark1498 are responsible for many of the misplacements (including in your examples above).

The issue of what should appear in the alma_mater|= field (and the related "how many institutions should be allowed in the field" issue) is not new, and has been discussed at length. Here is one such discussion on this issue in which I participated. The central concern is standardization, since there are apparently search tools and databases which access our infobox fields and expect the data to be parsed and formatted somewhat consistently. I hope that explanation helps. Best regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 17:46, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Noted. Thanks for the explanation! GabeIglesia (talk) 03:33, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. Quis separabit? 17:50, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

RE: CREW

What did I do? What is the difference between these two edits (, )? And there is nothing about CREW that is not partisan, btw. Quis separabit? 22:24, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Howdy Robert. First, thank you for the 'Happy New Year' greeting, and please know that I wish the same for you. Sorry I'm so late in returning the sentiments. Thank you, also, for your contributions to Misplaced Pages — an impressive volume of work indeed (sometimes I wonder if you are a machine, rather than a living being). Second, regarding your opinion that "there is nothing about CREW that is not partisan" — I've heard that before, it's a popular meme. Unfortunately, it's a meme not supported by facts. CREW has criticized all parties; launched legal action against all parties, investigated all parties - so by definition, it is absolutely not partisan ("beholden to a single party"). Perhaps you meant to say that CREW has acted against people associated with the Republican Party more than those associated with the Democratic Party? That assertion would at least be supported by the facts; and while that doesn't equate to partisanship, it might be indicative of some bias, right? That's another popular meme, but at least it is plausible. Detractors of CREW cry bias, while defenders of CREW claim one of two reasons why Republicans get slammed more than Democrats: a) because Republicans have been in power more than Democrats, with more opportunity to abuse that power, or b) when it comes to bending or breaking the rules and regulations of government, Republicans simply transgress a lot more than Democrats. My personal opinion is that a degree of all three elements are involved; I'm just not sure about the proportions.

On the matter of today's edits, you do realize that Daily Caller article is simply a clever way to prop Brock up as a Clinton patsy, right? The reality is that Brock wasn't involved with CREW back when it filed the FOIA, and Brock wasn't involved when the State Dept. closed the request, and Brock hasn't made any comment on the matter during the past two weeks since the IG report. An actual informative news source on the matter doesn't even mention him. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 00:40, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Disruptive IP hopper near Lancaster

Hi. I've been dealing with that IP-hopping editor from Lancaster, PA for months and months. This guy acts in good faith but is still disruptive and has serious civility and competence issues. What do you think about resuming the semi-prot approach instead of going back to constant reversions? If there's one thing I've learned it's that he never stops. Like the energizer bunny, as soon as the semi-prot expires he's back to junking up articles and talk pages the next day. (P.S. I'm kind of intermittent on WP these days, so please be patient if I don't respond immediately.) --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 19:59, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Dr. Fleischman. I agree that his edits are disruptive, and he certainly has problems with civility and competence; he has long since forfeited any assumptions of good faith on my part. His latest edit, made just today, was to insert a link to a self-published YouTube video espousing some rather extreme points of view, and ending in a tirade about how Misplaced Pages and all news sources are "censoring" him. He posts phone numbers in edit summaries and claims to be a "paid Obama censor". As previously noted in previous discussions about this user, he has been repeatedly blocked and re-blocked by Admins NeilN and Bbb23, but he just hops to new IPs. HJ Mitchell has determined that it would be difficult to effectively range-block the IPs, so he tried semi-protecting some of the articles, but the guy has hopped to more than a dozen different articles now — some of them rather obscure. Should I assemble a list of all of the known target articles to date, and request to have them all semi'd? Xenophrenic (talk) 23:52, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea, thanks. Thus thread seems like a good starting point for putting together a list. I also wonder if we should include talk pages on the list. Clearly some of this guy's recent text dumps at Talk:Constitutional challenges to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act are counterproductive; however I'm uncomfortable preventing other IPs from providing input into articles. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 04:52, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Temporary notes to self - Frequented articles: David Yerushalmi - Robert Muise - Patrick Morrisey - Ron Johnson (U.S. politician) - David Zubik - Bob Casey, Jr. - David Barton (author) - Constitutional challenges to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - United States House of Representatives v. Burwell - Thomas More Law Center

leaves note to HJ Mitchell, also calls specific editors idiots or alleges conspiracy,

Was at ANI here

Accuses several admins and editors mentioned above of "hijack of history" and a "conspiracy" to "censor" Misplaced Pages here

A couple editors discuss identical disruption a year and a half ago here

Disruptive IP complains and accuses here

Bbb23 tried to reason with, and talk sense to, the disruptive IP here, and later gets accused of being part of a conspiracy

Disruptive IP was prolific on this account for a while: 173.67.165.170

Also spammed Jimbo Wales Talk page here and 3 headers later here and yet again, 4 headers after that here

Stray outliers: 173.163.42.117 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 173.163.16.73 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 64.134.69.124 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 64.134.96.174 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 64.134.241.80 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)

Recent: 50.107.50.51 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 50.107.50.58 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 50.77.104.17 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), IP:173.67.169.110, IP:173.67.160.197, IP:173.67.168.7, 173.67.164.84 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 173.67.159.59 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 173.67.167.142 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 173.67.165.239 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) typical spamming into unrelated articles: IP:173.67.160.98

Rudolf Anderson disruption as well: IP:173.67.167.91, IP:173.67.168.235, IP:173.67.158.40, IP:173.67.167.51, IP:173.67.169.82, IP:173.67.166.205, IP:173.67.158.214, IP:173.67.159.231

(A few examples of block evasion: Sept 17, Sept 18, Sept 19, Sept 19)

IVAW and flag burning, IVAW sources.

Here is the photo that was taken of the person in question. This is regards to the edit you made on Sept 1st 2015 that removed all refferences to the flag burning. edit to article, image Here is the link that also references it from the IVAW website. The line quotes is listed on item number 7. This is the link to his resignation from IVAW. meeting minutes

I respectful request that the IVAW article to be amended to include this information. Thank you for your time. Articseahorse (talk) 00:29, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Articseahorse. Thank you for providing the links to that information. I see from that information that there was a brief demonstration at an ANSWER protest, and that "...there was no official endorsement of the message Matthis conveyed. Nor was official endorsement sought. Matthis represented his personal views which resonate with some but not all members." The information does not appear to be regarding an IVAW event, or regarding a IVAW-sanctioned demonstration, so I am unclear as to what, exactly, you were proposing to add to the IVAW article. (And resignations a half-year later do not appear to be related.) What information specifically about the IVAW were you hoping to convey to readers? Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 17:05, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

That this event lead up to a main board member (Matthis) being pushed into resigning from the IVAW. I think that it is related in the statement made on the IVAW meeting minutes PDF. "Matthis Chiroux resigned from the Board of Directors after careful consideration of an inability to sign the Director Agreement faithfully." The IVAW's Director Agreement can be found here in a word document. The part that I think is relevant is in the first statement. "Also, I recognize that others may view my personal conduct as representative of IVAW and I agree to hold myself to a high standard of conduct even while not representing IVAW. I understand that if the other Board members feel that my unofficial conduct jeopardizes IVAW that may be grounds for removal from the Board." This is the part of the document that he did not sign. That is why I think this is connected and included to addresss how his contact was viewed by the IVAW as a group and how their reaction to his actions as a board member. Thank you for your time. Articseahorse (talk) 01:13, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

I still don't see any sources which connect the Matthis resignation to the protest 6 months earlier, and more importantly, all of this information appears to be about that person rather than about IVAW. Is there anything in reliable sources, such as published major newspapers or magazines, which cover this information and indicate why it is important? Xenophrenic (talk) 01:46, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Infobox person's religion parameter RfC

The RfC you suggested is now open, here. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼ 12:48, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Wow

n/t

Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:28, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Anythingyouwant, I know, right?

By the way, I just realized I mentioned you in my discussions with the RfC closer (I even quoted you) when making my argument, without pinging you. Sorry about that oversight. I'm still watching with mixed feelings the ongoing RfC discussions about what to do with Religion and Ethnicity in infoboxes. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 20:40, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

No problem about the pinging. Cheers.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:51, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Xenophrenic

I didn't wish to get into an edit war, but the individuals that are performing the editing, merely delete documented and factual evidence that has been evolving the past few days. As much as Katie Couric may or may not be a whipping post for the political right, it is newsworthy from a large number of left leaning media sources. I also cannot contact others, as they do not possess a talk page. My belief is that they will not allow any such information to be posted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbusch8899 (talk • contribs) 04:15, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

The information that was added to the Couric article was not supported by the cited sources (for example, saying Couric hadn't commented, when she clearly had). The content was added non-neutrally (for example, given its own header and section, which is a violation of our WP:DUE policy). The information is misplaced, as it is information about a film, and not Couric (who wasn't responsible for the editing). The addition contained bare URL links in the body of the text, which is against policy; and the addition cited sources which do not meet Misplaced Pages's reliable source requirements. The problematic content was also introduced and re-introduced repeatedly, without addressing the cited concerns; that is against our editing policy. The edits were also made by apparent sockpuppets, which is against our policies. The editing was wrong on so many levels. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 04:47, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

1. To the best of my knowledge, I was the only one that was editing the information to be inclusive of the controversy. 2. Couric had not, in fact, specifically responded to the accusations. However, a general statement by the film director and Epix was made public. 3. Couric was the Executive Producer, as well as the Creative Executive/Narrator of the Film. She might have not have physically done the editing, but she certainly had control over the editing. 4. What cited concerns? I wasn't able to locate why the information was being deleted. 5. If I made technical mistakes, why could they have not been communicated for me to correct? 6. The information now on the page, cites the film as a documentary. Clearly that classification is in dispute, by dozens of independent media sources. If such is allowed to stand, without mentioning the controversy surrounding such, then I would argue that such violates policy as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbusch8899 (talk • contribs) 15:03, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Block Notice and block appeal/review

I have blocked your account for continued edit warring at Forced conversion. (1, 2, 3) This appears to be a continuation of the behavior highlighted at the 3RR report. (4, 5, 6, 7) Our edit warring policy is quite clear that consensus should be reached or dispute resolution sought instead of reverting to your preferred version. When the block expires, I would encourage you to continue further discussion before making further reverts. If you feel that the discussion is not progressing, I would encourage you to seek further input through dispute resolution or a request for comment. Mike V • Talk 15:12, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Xenophrenic (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

As explained immediately below (my apologies, but this Unblock Template is giving me grief when I try to provide diffs within it).

Decline reason:

(1) Procedural decline: The block has expired. Vanjagenije (talk) 17:11, 28 July 2016 (UTC) (reinstated; at the suggestion of the blocking admin, this template may be left up pending the attention of another editor on the substance of the block)

(2) Firstly, you are no longer blocked, so an unblock isn't what you're asking for. Secondly, I don't see how your latest edits on that page, namely these, qualify as a self-reversion. You removed content from the page that you didn't agree with, despite objections on the talk page. Huon (talk) 17:33, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I believe Admin Mike V has misunderstood the present situation and made this block in error. I have made only a single actual edit to the article in the past couple days, and only 3 edits total in the past 8 days (these are the 3 diffs Mike provided as evidence of edit warring): All 3 edits were simple reverts to the pre-dispute BRD article version — as suggested by the involved editors (see Jobas, and Anupam, and per this agreement here), while our discussion is ongoing. Despite the contentious subject matter, we've actually done fairly well in discussing our concerns, with only those few instances during the past week of editors prematurely declaring they have consensus and reinserting problematic content.

I said Mike may be misunderstanding the situation, and here are some of the reasons why:

Mike warns me that consensus should be reached or dispute resolution sought instead of reverting to your preferred version, when I've actually been grudgingly reverting to the problematic version I've been arguing against (per my promise to Admin EdJohnston, and at the request of the other editors), and I've absolutely been discussing and trying to develop consensus. I opened the discussion; I was the last to comment in the discussion before this block; and I've been trying to keep the discussion productive and focused the whole time.
The 3RR report Mike cites says of my "highlighted behavior": doesn't reveal any egregious edit warring. And the vexatious report was declined, to boot. I am trying to continue my behavior of not engaging in any egregious edit warring.
Mike lists diffs to edits like this as somehow problematic, but I'm not seeing it. I temporarily moved problematic content cut-&-pasted from other Misplaced Pages articles without the required attribution (and worse, with 'Citation Needed' and 'Dubious' tags included), by this drive-by editor, to the article Talk page and opened discussions. I understood that to be best-practice procedure.
I did, however, also make a series of 20 temporary improvement edits to newly proposed content additions so that I could more easily refer and link to them during our discussions. But I immediately self-reverted every single edit of mine and returned the article to the pre-dispute state as previously requested by the other editors. It's possible Mike saw my string of 20 edits and misunderstood that as implementing "my preferred version", and that's partially on me for not more clearly explaining what I was doing, but I did say in my first of 20 edit summaries: "fixing the proposed version before reverting to pre-dispute version".

I am requesting that ~~the block be lifted, and~~ a brief notation be added to the log summary to indicate the mistaken entry. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 21:06, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

With the block due to expire within the hour, the part of my request to have the block lifted is now moot. The more important part of my request to have an edifying notation added to the block log, however, remains an important and active issue. Xenophrenic (talk) 15:01, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Benefits of opening a WP:Request for comment at Talk:Genocides in history

Regarding your comment here: you must know that the other party doesn't have to consent to your opening of an RfC. And that if an RfC is seen as reaching a consensus among those who do participate, it is likely to be treated as binding by administrators in case of a later edit war. EdJohnston (talk) 14:09, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, Ed, RfCs do not require approval by another editor, and I am aware of that. If -I- had a content issue I wished to clarify through community input, crafting an RfC would be a simple matter. But I am not the editor with the content concern, Etsybetsy is, so I was attempting to craft an RfC that would address his concern appropriately. But as you saw at your now archived Talk page discussion, my attempts to represent his position in an RfC were met with accusations that I was misquoting or misrepresenting him. But when I asked him to reword it to his satisfaction, he refused. Hopefully now you more clearly see my dilemma. RfCs are easy, Ed, once you have a clear issue to present, but Etsy keeps redefining his issues on the fly. However, if he answers my last couple questions without his usual hand-wavy, nonspecific responses, I will have isolated an actual issue around which I can create a productive RfC. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 03:03, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Xenophrenic

Thank you for reverting the insertion of incorrect information about my father's holiday. While a claim was made that there was a Roman holiday by that name in Allen Salkin's tome, that 2005 book is the first time said claim has ever appeared anywhere in print, and in no list of Roman holidays will that name will be found. I appreciate the deletion: I find this incorrect claim very frustrating. I understand completely this was all done in good faith. Thank you for your time. Best, Dan O'Keefe — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanOKeefe (talk • contribs) 06:25, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

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Eliko007

Hi Xenophrenic. I'll be honest, I didn't check Eliko007's facts, I merely objected to the original tone and presentation. He ask for guidance on my talk page, which is why I ran up the suggested alternative. Thanks for clarifying the facts. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 17:14, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Don't worry about it, Martin of Sheffield. You saw that his canvassing attempt was non-neutral in wording, and you notified him of it. I very much appreciated that. You can not possibly be expected to know all the little details and sordid history behind his assertions (even I had to do some digging to refresh my memory, and I'm involved!), and the fact that you took the extra step to help him improve it is admirable. No complaints here. Best regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 21:12, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

@Martin of Sheffield: It seems he still doesn't get the idea that canvassing for input is not supposed to be coupled with demonizing participants in that discussion. Oh well. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 18:43, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Well at least he didn't use the red triangle or "urgent". Other than that it seems to be word for word, including the accusations against you. If you want to take it further please feel free to quote my advice on his talk page and his response on mine. It's particularly annoying when he says "As I'm a bit new here, would you be able to suggest an alternative wording?" and then completely ignores the advice. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:07, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Blocked for edit warring

I have given both you and Jobas a block for edit warring. While so far no 3RR violation occurred on any individual article, the overall effect of the edit war between the two of you has the same effect. Your block is longer because of your previous block history for edit warring. Fram (talk) 13:07, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Fram - my first reflexive impulse was to post an unblock request, citing (1) I didn't breach 3RR, (2) *I* was the one initiating Talk page discussions at each article, (3) I had the "moral authority" after a community discussion determined that the category created by Jobas that I was removing was, at best, a product of "original research" and should be eliminated and replaced by a category backed by actual reliable sources. But despite all that, all I can muster up right now is a: "Good block, Fram." I really shouldn't be editing at 4AM, methinks. I may petition for a reduction in the block duration, but not right now while I'm still seething. I'm going back to bed. Kind regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 13:55, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

You didn't breach 3RR at any single article, but had 43 reverts of the same category in a short time, sometimes multiple times at the same article. Starting the discussion after your first attempt has been reverted is not an excuse to continue the reverts at the same time (though it is at least better than continuing to revert without any discussion at all of course). And when you start a CfD which ends in no consensus with "The suggestion of Category:Religious persecution by secular governments given below is, I suggest, a good one. I suggest all editors who have commented here work towards moving this category to something approaching that one, because as given, the current title is frankly original research." as recommendation, then that doesn't give you the right to a blanket removal of the category. The least you could have done was replace it with the suggested one, so that you at least gave the appearance of accepting the CfD conclusion. But what you did now may have felt to you as if it was supported by the CfD, but to an uninvolved bystander looks as if you wanted to implement your preferred outcome of the CfD against the actual closure. Either start another CfD where you propose renaming the category to something along the lines of the CfD closure, or leave this well alone. Good night. Fram (talk) 14:23, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Fram, as an uninvolved bystander, you wouldn't be expected to know the actual details behind this matter, only how things "appear". So some things should be made clear at the outset:

→ I'd never use "starting a discussion" as an excuse to continue reverting. The reason I re-removed the category after the discussion was because there was no longer a reason not to.

→ I'd never cite that CfD as "giving me the right to a blanket removal of a category". If you'll look closer at my edit summaries, they stated: rvt insertion of unsourced; (and this article isn't being specifically discussed at the linked discussion). I removed the problematic categories because they were unsourced, in violation of WP:CAT, and specifically not because of that discussion.

→ I haven't "started" a CfD (Marcocapelle did), and it didn't end in "no consensus" -- it ended with: No consensus - with caveats.

I'm not sure what the significance of 40+ reverts in a short time is in your argument, Fram. The problematic nonsense category was pointedly created by Jobas on November 10, 2015, apparently as payback in his dispute with another editor who was tagging articles with Category:Persecution by Christians, and he tagged 40+ articles with it in under an hour. Those articles have subsequently had the category removed over time since it was completely unsourced in violation of Misplaced Pages policy, and by the time Marcocapelle initiated the CfD, the category was empty. I see that you have advised Jobas, "This doesn't mean that you can go to all the articles where you were edit warring and revert them to your version because he is still blocked." He didn't need to. As soon as I was blocked, his meatpuppets took care of that (see edits starting here where the problematic category was again re-inserted in 40+ articles in under 20 minutes). Is that also of significance? I suspect the answer to that has more to do with the preferences of the admin witnessing it than with the action itself.

Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 14:24, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Notice of AN/I Discussion

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Continued POV Pushing and Aggressive Edit Warring by Xenophrenic. Thank you. Due to your block you are invited to leave comments on your talk page to be transferred across to the AN/I thread in question by a third party. Please make sure your comments are relevant and respectful. Thank you, Mr rnddude (talk) 04:42, 15 February 2017 (UTC)