March 18, 2017 (2017-03-18) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
- Syrian Civil War
- Around 1,500–2,000 people leave al-Waer district of Homs today for their preferred destination of either Northern Homs Governorate, Idlib Governorate or Turkish Army positions in Northern Aleppo Governorate. Up to 15,000 to 20,000 people including armed militants, their families and supporters will leave the besieged district in the coming weeks with the rest of the population reconciling and receiving aid. (BBC) (Al Masdar News)
- Battle of Mosul
Arts and culture
International relations
Law and crime
- March 2017 Île-de-France attacks
- French security forces shoot suspect Ziyed Ben Belgacem dead in Paris' Orly Airport after he put the pellet gun to her head and took away an assault rifle from one of three soldiers from "Sentinelle" operation patrolling the airport. Belgacem had earlier shot a police officer with a pellet gun. Later, he had threatened a bar and then carjacked another vehicle to the airport. (BBC)
March 17
Portal:Current events/2017 March 17
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March 17, 2017 (2017-03-17) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
- Heavy flooding in Peru kills at least 67 people and forces thousands to abandon their homes. (The Guardian)
Politics and elections
Science
RD: Derek Walcott
Article: Derek Walcott (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): BBC Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Nobel Prize-winning writer. Maybe even worth a blurb? EternalNomad (talk) 14:57, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- The "citation needed" tags seem to have been fixed, so I now support this.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:59, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Psamtik I statue
Article: Psamtik I (talk · history · tag) Blurb: A colossal ancient Egyptian statue, discovered on 9 March, is preliminarily identified as depicting pharaoh Psamtik I. (Post) Alternative blurb: A colossal ancient Egyptian statue is discovered in Cairo, believed to be depicting pharaoh Psamtik I News source(s): Credits:
Article updatedNominator's comments: So as not to leave a nomination hanging ... Banedon (talk) 03:54, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comment - Note that the BBC article relies entirely upon a local news article, which states: "Minister of Antiquities Khaled El-Enany said on Thursday that the royal colossus discovered last week in Matariya district, Cairo is probably a statue of 26 dynasty king Psammetich I not King Ramses II as believed earlier." The actual quote from the government Minister is: "If it belongs to this king, then it is the largest statue of the Late Period that was ever discovered in Egypt," I still don't think we have anything particularly strong. We also don't appear to have any quotes from the research team that is conducting the excavation. Last time they were more cautious than the government Ministers. All we really know for sure is that we made the correct call not to post this a few days ago. I wonder if we shouldn't exercise the same degree of caution again, or if we are to post it, to make the blurb appropriately qualified. (As a minor point, in the blurb "belonging to" would be better as "depicting".) --Mkativerata (talk) 07:38, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support, probably the largest archeological discovery in a long time; until the British Museum takes it and then gets renominated here when they put it up for visitors near the golden torcs. Nergaal (talk) 09:01, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Jesus Christ can you just stop talking about the Golden Torcs? UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 00:07, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose better suited for DYK. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:32, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support This time the ID clue looks more reliable (I've slightly tweaked the blurb per Mkativerata ). It's not every day that such major discoveries are made. If it turns out not to be Psamtik I, then it could be updated, just like other items, such as casualties. Brandmeister 10:50, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support I've moved some text prematurely written in Ramesses II over, so now there is a decent paragraph about the statue in Psamtik I. --LukeSurl 11:00, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose - Per TRM - DYK. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 11:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comment – In retrospect, the main news was finding the statue. Being "preliminarily identified" as a pharaoh whose name relatively few would recognize seems underwhelming. Sca (talk) 14:17, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, that's my feeling too, hence a suggestion to take it to DYK. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:19, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Sca: It was nominated at the time of the finding, yet not everyone supported back then. Brandmeister 14:44, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's why I said "in retrospect." But at the time an ITN blurb about pieces of an unidentified statue seemed problemmatic. Sca (talk) 14:46, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Now if the statue were identified as Sam the Sham, that would be a different matter! Sca (talk) 14:51, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- I am curious what is your definition of trivial. I mean this is a colossal statue, even by Egypt's standard, vs several grams of gold. Are you saying this didn't receive global coverage, because I remember differently a few days ago? Isn't this the perfect example of "Anglosphere-bias" suffered by ITN? Nergaal (talk) 13:53, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Nergaal: - This nomination is just stating that the statue discovered last week was determined to be Psamtik I and not Rameses II. I'm not sure what the alt-blurb is trying to say because a new statue wasn't discovered. The Torcs were internationally recognized and therefore they were more than notable. They aren't even relevant as an argument now because they've been off of ITN for almost two weeks. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 15:55, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
- My impression is that we agreed last week to postpone this till identification. If it had been posted then, it would still be on ITN now, and it would probably get bumped up. Nergaal (talk) 16:39, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Nergaal: - I didn't have a chance to vote on the other nomination, but I voted oppose per DYK because I think that it's interesting but not newsworthy. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 17:07, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
- I was not talking about you, I was talking about consensus. If it was up to people like you all archeological trash finds from Britain would get posted, while colossal statues and alike would never make the main page. Nergaal (talk) 17:19, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
March 16
Portal:Current events/2017 March 16
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March 16, 2017 (2017-03-16) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Science and technology
2017 Syrian mosque airstrike
Article: 2017 Syrian mosque airstrike (talk · history · tag) Blurb: An airstrike on a mosque in the rebel-held al-Jinah village near Aleppo, kills at least 42 people and injures more than 100. (Post) News source(s): Reuters, The Guardian Credits:
Article updatedNominator's comments: The event is regarded as "massacre" by Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. Mhhossein 12:21, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose as cours de la guerre. It's a war, and a long and complicated one at that. I don't see anything here that would be any more ITN worthy than what happens over there on a daily basis. As an example, just today in a war going on nearly next door to this one, an airstrike just blew up a boat full of unaligned Somalians.128.214.163.201 (talk) 14:45, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- The Yemen/Somali boat thing is currently having contradictory info. Sources from the scene indicate small arms fire rather than airstrike. The mosque airstrike is being denied by the US - as would be expected. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:50, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comment: please expand the article (it is barely more than a stub right now), and explain in the article why it is more than a routine part of war, to address 128.214.163.201's concerns above. For example, by citing responses from political leaders or international organizations, discussing the possible US factor (if RS'es substantiate it), etc. HaEr48 (talk) 16:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose - Why is this specific airstrike so special? The intervention has been occurring since 2014, over 7,000 have been killed (including 900 civilians) in over 5,000 strikes by the USAF alone. I don't see why one airstrike is more important than the others simply because a few more people were killed. The Syrian intervention isn't even in the 'Ongoing'. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 16:15, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Um, even in war you're not supposed to bomb a mosque full of civilian worshippers without a proper justification? Especially if it's a state actor, who are bound by various conventions HaEr48 (talk) 16:22, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- I'm knowledgeable on the rules of war, I'm asking why this specific airstrike is so notable when plenty of other things happen that don't get recognition, even if it is a big deal. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 16:25, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Probably because they are seldom nominated. In this case, the article is a stub. The event is tragic and shouldn't happen, and ought to be enough to get onto ITN but we have hard hearts, and have become battle-hardened against bombings in Syria, Pakistan, Turkey etc, shootings in America, etc. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:06, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
RD: Hasyim Muzadi
Article: Hasyim Muzadi (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): The Jakarta Post Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: former Chairman of Nahdlatul Ulama (Indonesia's biggest Muslim organization). I recently expanded the article to cover his career and death HaEr48 (talk) 07:27, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Agree I don't think there's a problem here. As UNSC Luke 1021 says, those two words have a different meaning, and Islamic is certainly appropriate here. HaEr48 (talk) 00:51, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support - after the nominator of this RD has continued to improve and update the article with small, but significant, fixes. These would include additional sources in English. Also, the article's sentence structure is a bit clearer. Christian Roess (talk) 00:12, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- I've added some more English sources and continued to update it. Multiple editors recently copy-edited it too. HaEr48 (talk) 06:09, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
- Very good work getting this ready. Thank you. Christian Roess (talk) 13:24, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
March 15
Portal:Current events/2017 March 15
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March 15, 2017 (2017-03-15) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Politics and elections
Whanganui River
Article: Whanganui River (talk · history · tag) Blurb: The Whanganui River in New Zealand is granted legal personality by the country's parliament. (Post) News source(s): The Guardian, NZ Herald Credits:
Article updatedNominator's comments: The decision was passed into law on 15 March, ending 140-year-old (at least) talks between Maori and the government. Legally unusual, but noble decision IMO. Brandmeister 20:49, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
Dutch election
Article: Dutch general election, 2017 (talk · history · tag) Blurb: The People's Party for Freedom and Democracy, led by incumbent Prime Minister Mark Rutte, wins the Dutch general election with 30/31/32/33 seats. (Post) Alternative blurb: The People's Party for Freedom and Democracy, led by incumbent Prime Minister Mark Rutte, comes in first place in the Dutch general election with 30/31/32/33 seats. Alternative blurb II: The People's Party for Freedom and Democracy wins a plurality of House of Representatives seats in the Dutch general election. Alternative blurb III: The VVD, led by incumbent Prime Minister Mark Rutte, wins the most seats in the Dutch general election, but the governing coalition loses its majority. Alternative blurb IV: The People's Party for Freedom and Democracy of incumbent Prime Minister Mark Rutte wins the most seats in the Dutch general election. News source(s): The Guardian Credits:
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.Nominator's comments: When results are fully in, of course. Actual number of seats may vary, but usually not more than one seat apart from exit polls' predictions. EternalNomad (talk) 20:48, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support - Everything looks fine and the election was especially notable because of the ongoing Turkish-Dutch commotion. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 20:57, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comment If I understand the Dutch/Turkey relationship issues, these elections were part of the problem, but there's not a mention of this in the election article. I don't expect the blurb to mention it, but I do think that if that diplomatic incident was at least a point of concern during the election, it should be mentioned in that article. --MASEM (t) 21:06, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- Not ready Table needs to be filled in, I agree with Masem that the Turkey issue needs to be mentioned in the page. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:32, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose there's not much point in supporting an ITNR when it's clearly bereft of the detail required to bring it to the standard we require. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support - when ready.BabbaQ (talk) 21:51, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- Note, the numbers circulating come from (historically quite accurate) exit polls and early projections, and by now news reports are certain that Rutte's party have the plurality. The actual vote count is likely to take on the order of a few days so those tables and seat counts in the article won't be ready for a while. We should consider the article ready once it adequately outlines the overall picture, but we will be implementing a long delay if we insist on the precise results. --LukeSurl 00:00, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- They've historically been very good, and have been confirmed this time by the initial counts. The electoral system in the Netherlands (simple proportional representation) is more conducive to such projections than other systems. --LukeSurl 09:40, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Wait for official results this time. Abductive (reasoning) 00:59, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Wait, the results are not yet quite clear enough. --AmaryllisGardener 02:08, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support when ready - Sherenk1 (talk) 05:03, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comment I think the altblurb is more accurate - while it's true that PPFD has come first, that's not the same as a "win". They don't have a majority and will have to come up with a workable coalition to form a government. While that looks likely, if only because everyone else opposes whatever Wilders' party is called, it's not an outcome of the election per se. GoldenRing (talk) 09:59, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- As discussed here the current ANP projection is based on 95% precincts reporting, though the official results won't be out until 21 March. Waiting that long is inappropriate and we posted the US result well before the final popular vote totals were known. Our blurb should mention that the VVD have the plurality (which news orgs are reporting as a certainty now) but shouldn't be precise as to the exact number of seats. --LukeSurl 10:02, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comment Those graphs in the opinion polls section are very off-putting and take up a lot of space. Anyone else think so? I don't really work with images, so I'm not sure what's the best approach with them. Lugnuts 11:06, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support alternative blurb 3. The VVD went from 41 to 32 seats, losing almost ¼ of its voters; I think it's potentially misleading to call that "winning the elections". VVD became the largest party but it's the smallest "largest party" in Dutch political history with just 21% of the vote. I would propose a slight change to the alternative blurb, with seats replaced by 21.2% of the vote (or whatever the final projection is). --Gerrit 12:17, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Blurb comment: how about 'remains the largest party'? That avoids the problems with 'wins' and the jargon term 'plurality'. Modest Genius 12:24, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comment We should also mention that the coalition partners Labour Party (Netherlands) have collapsed, which means that a governing coalition needs to be reformed. I've added an altblurb Smurrayinchester 15:04, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support – For Altblurb 3 or Altblub 4. No. 1 story in Europe. – Sca (talk) 15:10, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support - Its time to write about it. 46.70.205.85 (talk) 17:23, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Propose altblurb4. Mélencron (talk) 22:01, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Posted with altblurb 3. Black Kite (talk) 23:49, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
March 14
Portal:Current events/2017 March 14
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March 14, 2017 (2017-03-14) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime
RD: André Tosel
Article: André Tosel (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): "André Tosel, philosophe niçois de renom, nous a quittés". Nice Matin. March 14, 2017. Retrieved March 15, 2017.; Barbancey, Pierre; Chaillan, Pierre (March 15, 2017). "Disparition. André Tosel, ou l'action avec Marx, Spinoza et Gramsci". L'Humanité. Retrieved March 15, 2017. Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: French Marxist philosopher and academic administrator. Former vice president of a major university (20,000+ students) and promulgator of Marxist theories in academia. Zigzig20s (talk) 18:31, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
Raja Ampat reef destruction
Article: Raja Ampat Islands (talk · history · tag) Blurb: A Bahamian cruise ship accidentally destroys a large section of the Raja Ampat Islands' coral reefs (Post) News source(s): Credits:
Article updatedNominator's comments: The updated section badly needs copyediting, and possibly rearranging as well. From first looks it seems more natural to put the incident into the "geography" section. Banedon (talk) 15:04, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose stale, The Guardian says it ran aground in an uncharted shoal in West Papua province after completing a bird-watching trip on Waigeo Island on 4 March. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:52, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose - Per TRM; Stale. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 16:13, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- I imagine news doesn't travel very fast in that region of the world, and also it probably took time to determine the scope and impact of the damage. It's a bit presumptuous to call this stale.--WaltCip (talk) 17:10, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- It was a British cruise ship; I'd assume Britain would report quickly on it. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 18:45, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- The story isn't the cruise ship itself. The story is the damage to the reef.--WaltCip (talk) 18:47, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- I understand that; I just assumed that since Britain was involved they would report quick. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 19:29, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Point of order - the ship is Bahamian, not British. Blurb amended to reflect this. Mjroots (talk) 19:32, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Getting back to the point, it was reported in mainstream press on 10 March, a whole four days before this nomination listing. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:50, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well two options. One, move this to March 10; two, close as stale. I don't mind either. Banedon (talk) 00:35, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
March 13
Portal:Current events/2017 March 13
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March 13, 2017 (2017-03-13) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
International relations
Politics and elections
- Proposed second Scottish independence referendum
- United States immigration ban
- The state of Washington, joined by the states of California, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, and Oregon, asks a federal judge to stop, on constitutional grounds, the revised federal immigration/refugee rules from taking effect on Thursday, March 16. The state of Hawaii has filed a separate, similar request. (Reuters)
- Hungarian presidential election, 2017
Sports
RD: Henri Cueco
Article: Henri Cueco (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): Duponchelle, Valérie (March 14, 2017). "La mort du peintre Henri Cueco". Le Figaro. Retrieved March 15, 2017.; "Le peintre Henri Cueco est mort". Libération. March 15, 2017. Retrieved March 15, 2017.; Dagen, Philippe (March 15, 2017). "Henri Cueco, peintre politique et écrivain, est mort". Le Monde. Retrieved March 15, 2017. Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: French painter, essayist, novelist Zigzig20s (talk) 21:41, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- I worked very hard on it.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:14, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well done! The Rambling Man (talk) 22:16, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:35, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
RD: Eamonn Casey
Article: Eamonn Casey (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): BBC Credits:
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD. —MBlaze Lightning 18:20, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Weak oppose the article seems weak on what he actually did, the majority of the article being his "views", his "controversy" and his "health". A 66-year career in the church summarised in five or six sentences clearly isn't comprehensive. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:29, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
RD: Danehill Dancer
Article: Danehill Dancer (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): ESPN Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Horse who was successful as a racer, and as a sire. Article is surprisingly thoroughly well sourced Anarcho-authoritarian (talk) 16:56, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
March 12
Portal:Current events/2017 March 12
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March 12, 2017 (2017-03-12) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
- A landslide at a rubbish dump on the outskirts of Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, kills at least 48 people. (BBC)
- A bus driver in the Haitian city of Gonaïves ploughs into crowds of people celebrating Rara while speeding away from an earlier accident which left one person dead, killing at least 38 people, including a group of street musicians, and injures 17 others. (Reuters)
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Sports
Ethiopia landfill landslide
Article: 2017 Ethopian landfill landslide (talk · history · tag) Blurb: A landslide kills at least 46 people at a landfill in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. (Post) News source(s): CNN Credits:
Article needs updatingNominator's comments: Unusual, and high death toll.
- Comment Obviously we're going to need an article, but this is an ITN-appropriate event; I think we also did post the 2015 landfill landslide that happened in 2015 in China too. --MASEM (t) 03:26, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose stub article, the event itself is covered in one sentence. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:05, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Neutral/Comment - I'm neutral on this because fifty~ dead is definitely notable but the article sucks. We've been getting a lot of shitty article in ITN/C lately; I'm not sure if it reflects the process as a whole but I wish people put a little more effort into articles that they are nominating. I'd do more myself but I'm not suited in scouring news sources, possibly in other languages, and paraphrasing as to prevent plagiarism. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 11:49, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose article is a stub with barely more information than is already in the proposed blurb. Not of sufficient quality for posting on main page. --Jayron32 12:50, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose - In the past 5-6 hours barely any work has been done on the article, so I'm moving to oppose because the article is garbage (no morbid pun intended). UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 17:51, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support based on noteworthiness, pending expansion of the article itself. It shouldn't take too long to churn out a half-decent page for ITN. Kurtis 17:58, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- As above, notable but nowhere near ready at the current time. --LukeSurl 18:03, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose The lack of coverage on the landslide currently on Misplaced Pages is disappointing. --AmaryllisGardener 17:07, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
2017 Dutch–Turkish diplomatic incident
Article: 2017 Dutch–Turkish diplomatic incident (talk · history · tag) Blurb: A diplomatic incident is caused by the Netherlands refusal to allow Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu (pictured)to attend a rally in Rotterdam and Turkey's response of calling the Dutch Fascists and remnants of Nazis. (Post) Alternative blurb: Dutch and Turkish diplomats are banned in response to a diplomatic incident ahead of Dutch elections and a Turkish referendum. Alternative blurb II: The Netherlands and Turkey bans each others' diplomats in response to a diplomatic incident ahead of Dutch elections and a Turkish referendum. News source(s): Der Spiegel (German language) Credits:
Nominator's comments: I have started a discussion re the Multiple Issues tag at talk. Afd discussion so far is a unanimous keep. Mjroots (talk) 13:21, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- I'd like to point out that ambassadors are now, effectively, withdrawn.128.214.69.166 (talk) 07:52, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Changing to post-posting support given the escalation. 331dot (talk) 17:16, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
Oppose - ITN will get 30+ postings a day if we post every rhetorical back-and-forth at the national political level. That would not be a good thing.--WaltCip (talk) 13:47, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Can you provide evidence for this rather absurd statement. Should be discounted by the closing admin. 81.204.120.137 (talk) 18:31, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, my oppose vote should be discounted among the waves and waves of other oppose votes snowing in. Bugger off.--WaltCip (talk) 20:20, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- So in summary, no evidence for your absurd statement. Now I know why Trump won the election. 81.204.120.137 (talk) 21:42, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- If you are as familiar with ITN as you seem to be, you should know that we do not just parrot what is reported in the press, we weigh the notability of the nominations presented. People can disagree about what is notable in good faith- and the notability of something can certainly change over time. What all of those who oppose this are saying is that this does not seem notable at this time. If anything changes- we can all reevaluate our positions. Please stop personally attacking those who disagree with you. 331dot (talk) 22:06, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Can you point me towards the part of his statement where he is discussing notability? Thanks. And please, do not hararass me on my talk page. 81.204.120.137 (talk) 22:17, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- You have a very different definition of "harassment" than the rest of us if you consider one warning made in good faith harassment. 331dot (talk) 22:21, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Hardly in good faith, if you use these template in content disputes, one-sidedly. But back to the content dispute, can you please point out where WaltCip is discussing notability in his statement? All I see are some alternative facts. 81.204.120.137 (talk) 22:27, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- You clearly have made up your mind-which is your right- so I see little point in further comment. 331dot (talk) 22:48, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose – Per 331. Entertaining episode, but so far without substantive effect. Sca (talk) 16:23, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Oppose - I argued to keep the article because of notability but it isn't newsworthy until something more than a shouting match happens. If we posted every notable event of mudslinging, Donald Trump would be in the news every five minutes. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 18:13, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support - the foreign minister refused a landing permit, another minister deported out of the country, the Dutch ambassador being refused re-entry into Turkey, that's anything but just "political mudslinging". 81.204.120.137 (talk) 21:48, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
- Weak Oppose As diplomatic pissing contests go this one is a little more intense than usual, but for now that's still what it is. If there is an actual break in diplomatic relations I would reconsider supporting. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:57, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Comment Post-posting support I'm with Ad Orientem here; this is well above the usual complaints at each other but I think it would need an actual diplomatic break to rise to the level of ITN. Erdogan making a complete dick of himself (and pretty much wiping out any chance of Turkey joining the EU for the forseeable future) can of course be included in his article. Well, that escalated quickly Black Kite (talk) 23:23, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Oppose - per Ad Orientem. Example of other "diplomatic pissing contests", Vietnam demands China stop cruises in South China Sea . If this kind of event isn't very uncommon then it's hard to justify posting. Banedon (talk) 05:26, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- In order to make the comparison, Vietnam would have to PNG the Chinese ambassador, with China doing the same, and Japan canceling state visits, and violent protests breaking out. This is a little more than your standard piss and moan.128.214.69.166 (talk) 07:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- True. I switch to support. Banedon (talk) 08:52, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Adding alt blurb 2 since I don't understand alt blurb. The information in alt blurb 2 isn't actually in the article though. Article only says that Turkey banned the Netherlands' diplomat, not vice versa. Banedon (talk) 11:26, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- "Although not arrested, she was declared as persona non grata and eventually escorted to the Dutch-German border"128.214.69.166 (talk) 11:33, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- That sounds like one particular ambassador is banned. Kind of like if one country's ambassador breaks the law, but claims diplomatic immunity, the other country can declare the violator persona non grata but do not break off relations. All the first country has to do is send a different ambassador. Betül Sayan Kaya is also not actually an ambassador. In fact reading the article again what exactly is the cause of this diplomatic incident is not well communicated. The first section makes it seem like it's got something to do with campaigning, but the "escalation" section says nothing about campaigning. Why is the Turkish government sending ministers to its consulate in the Netherlands, and why is the Netherlands refusing them entry? Banedon (talk) 11:47, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- The questions you are asking are answered in the articles in the altblurbs. Briefly: the government of Turkey (contrary to the principles of the EU and its own laws) is trying to change the constitution in favor of a strongman, and is agitating amongst Turkish expats abroad. The countries where this is happening do not look on this kindly, as it makes a mockery of their sovereignty, creates security problems (riots), and involves them in a civil dispute of a foreign government against their will. Turkey was clearly notified that their government officials were not welcome to do this, but those government officials went anyway, abusing various diplomatic privileges and using outright subterfuge to enter the countries. These people were turned back, expelled or PNG'ed (a very serious designation that is usually reserved for spies). Turkish strongman takes offense to this, and here we are.128.214.163.204 (talk) 13:21, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks. It's not well-communicated in the article, however. The background section ends with "campaigning is not allowed", but the escalation section begins with "Turkish minister entry denied". It doesn't say why the minister is going there, or what the rationale behind denying him entry is. The next paragraph says the minister requested for a gathering and the Netherlands retaliates by revoking landing privileges for his plane. Again it doesn't say why the Netherlands is acting like this. But in any case I expect the article to be improved quickly now that it's on ITN. If it isn't I'll improve it myself over the next few days. Banedon (talk) 15:07, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support. Dutch-Turkish relations are effectively severed, Turkish government visits to Denmark are postponed for the foreseeable future, and the event has opened up a rift in the German government. The article is quite nice (as far as developing news articles go), giving concise background which is digestible to the naïve reader. I would like to compare this to the US-Russian diplomatic back-and-forth in the waning days of the Obama Administration. In that incident (which was proposed here at ITN and rightly closed), it was merely the government of one side making claims and ejecting diplomats without a quid pro quo from the other, and there was little if any public demonstration. Here, we have quid pro quo abound, mass demonstrations on both sides and the incident spreading beyond the two principle states.128.214.69.166 (talk) 07:52, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support – as someone who is caught right in the middle of this, it is difficult to judge how major an event this is exactly. I need to point out, however, that this happened merely two days before the Dutch election, and this incident is caused by an upcoming Turkish referendum that is going to have a huge impact. Turks in the Netherlands is a very large minority in the country and this incident puts a negative light on all of them, I'm afraid. This incident puts EU-Turkey relations at risk as well, and may impact things such as the refugee crisis. I can't not support this news blurb. ~Mable (chat) 08:46, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support I know some of the opposes above were made when this was a little diplomatic spat between Turkey and the Netherlands, but it's got bigger than that. Turkey's relationship with the EU as a whole is now on the line. With the implications for Turkey's (increasingly unlikely) accession to the EU, and the context of the rise of populist / anti-immigration / anti-Islam politics in Europe, this is a significant development that we should post. GoldenRing (talk) 09:41, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comment The original blurb is somewhat POV, and I don't think a specific diplomat is worthy of being singled out with a link and a picture since this now includes multiple diplomats from both sides. So, I added an altblurb.128.214.69.166 (talk) 10:06, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support alt blurb. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:06, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support whichever way you look at it this is a very unusual powerplay at international level. Nergaal (talk) 12:00, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support - This has severely escalated since yesterday. On the other hand, holy fucking shit guys; we're all going to die. /s UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 12:02, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support - This has escalated beyond minor diplomatic tit-for-tat.--WaltCip (talk) 12:13, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Posted a variation of Alt-blurb II, also shortened it up a bit. --Jayron32 14:18, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well, that was unexpected. Thanks all, especially those who changed from oppose to support. Mjroots (talk) 16:59, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Photo- File:Turkish people protesting the Netherlands.jpg is available for use, could be presented as (protestors pictured). Mjroots (talk) 21:56, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- WP:ERRORS. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
March 11
Portal:Current events/2017 March 11
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March 11, 2017 (2017-03-11) (Saturday)
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References
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- Reference.com. Retrieved March 16, 2017
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