Misplaced Pages

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Welcome to Misplaced Pages!!!

Hello Anupam! Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Below are some recommended guidelines to facilitate your involvement. Happy Editing! -- Kukini 04:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC) Getting Started Misplaced Pages Tutorial How to edit a page The five pillars of Misplaced Pages Manual of Style Be bold in editing How to write a great article WikiProjects Getting your info out there Cite your sources Neutral Point of View Point of View Verifiability Uploading images Image use policy Getting more Misplaced Pages rules Policy Library Getting Help New contributors' help page Where to ask a question Help Desk Frequently Asked Questions Getting along Wikiquette Civility Sign your posts Wikipedians Conflict resolution Getting technical Pages needing attention Peer review Utilities Village pump

My pleasure...happy editing! Kukini 04:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

خوش آمدید

Welcome back! It's nice to see you return! Kitabparast 13:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back too! I'm really happy that you're back again! Mar de Sin 22:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Hindi movies

I saw that you corrected the articles of some Hindi movies from "English" to "Translation". I'll help you do this, as there are so many movie articles with "English:XXX", "lit.- XXX", etc. (partly my fault), which would best be expressed as "Translation". Bahut bahut shukria Mar de Sin 22:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the Barnstar!

Thanks for your barnstar! Bahut bahut shukria, aap ki mehrbani hai! Mar de Sin 15:34, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Hindi Misplaced Pages

Hi, I've seen that you edit a lot of Hindi related articles here on Misplaced Pages. You may consider joining Hindi Misplaced Pages here. Thanks Gizza 12:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hindustani orthography

Check out Hindustani orthography and let me know what you think. –jonsafari 00:41, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Esperanza!

Welcome, Anupam, to Esperanza! As you might know, all the Esperanzians share one important goal: the success of this encyclopedia. Within that, we then attempt to strengthen the community bonds, and be the "approachable" side of the project. All of our ideals are held in the Charter, the governing document of the association.

Now that you are a member you should read the guide to what to do now or you may be interested in some of our programs. A quite important program is Stressbusters, which seeks to support editors who have encountered any stress from their Misplaced Pages events, and are seeking to leave the project. So far, Esperanza can be credited with the support and retention of several users. We will send you newsletters to keep you up to date. Also, we have a calendar of special events, member birthdays, and other holidays that you can add to and follow.

In addition to these projects, several more missions of Esperanza are in development, and are currently being created at Esperanza/Proposals.

If you have any other questions, concerns, comments, or general ideas, Esperanzian or otherwise, know that you can always contact Natalya by email or talk page. Consider introducing yourself at the Esperanza talk page! Alternatively, you could communicate with fellow users via our IRC channel, #wikipedia-esperanza (which is also good for a fun chat or two :). If you're new to IRC, you may find help at an IRC tutorial. I thank you for joining Esperanza, and look forward to working with you in making Misplaced Pages a better place to work!

Thank you for the barnstar

Bahut shukria for the barnstar! It was a fun article to write. I think a history of the usage of the various scripts would be interesting to include in the article, but I don't know much about that. I'm more of a linguistics guy. To answer your question, my background and current research mostly involves languages that use the Perso-Arabic script, but I've studied some Hindi, Sanskrit, Panjabi, and some Dravidian languages too. So many languages, so little time. –jonsafari 05:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Urdu alphabet

Adab, John Sahib. Thanks for your questions. Nast'aliq is actually a script style, not an alphabet. Naskh is the normal style that Persian and Arabic are usually written in. It's kind of like the difference between cursive and print. Urdu can be written in either style, but Nast'aliq is preferred for its beauty. I hope this helps! Khuda hafiz Mar de Sin 19:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Sure! That idea would help a lot. Thanks --Mar de Sin 20:57, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to help expand Urdu alphabet. There are a lot of letters (vowels, hamza, etc) that I haven't yet covered and many changes to make. Shukria! --Mar de Sin 21:57, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Hindustani

Salaam-e khudavand aap ke sath ho! If you want me to help out the Hindustani pages in any way, please let me know. I am going to remove the Hindustani pages from my watchlist until then. Keep up the great work! Yours in Christ Jesus, Khuda hafiz, Kitabparast 03:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Urdu-Hindustani Romanization move

Salaam. Thank you for your initiative to move The Modern International Standard Letters of Alphabet for URDU - HINDUSTANI - "THE" INDIAN LANGUAGE to a more sensible name. I thought I was the only one who thought the title was cumbersome, among other problems. You have my full support in this move. Keep me updated on this if you run into any problems. The article also has some issues with lack of citations, formatting, neutrality, and I suspect some possible copyvio problems, although I need look into this matter more to be sure. I'm sure the primary editor has good intentions, and the actual romanization scheme is fine, but the article has plenty of issues. –jonsafari 22:31, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

My vote is on Urdu-Hindustani Romanization or Uddin and Begum Urdu-Hindustani Romanization, since they imply a specific, actual romanization. Romanization of Urdu-Hindustani implies the article is about the general idea of romanizing Urdu-Hindustani, which it is not. Uddin and Begum Urdu-Hindustani Romanization is fine, and a more detailed title, except it's really long. As far as I know, there isn't another romanization that claims to cover specifically Urdu and Hindustani, so I don't think there would be a namespace clash using Urdu-Hindustani Romanization.

I'll look at the Hindi-Urdu grammar IPA situation when I can. I can't claim to know enough about the language to provide a phonetic transcription, but I can probably give a moderately accurate phonemic one. But then again, it's a grammar article, not a phonology article, so a phonemic transcription is more appropriate anyways. I'm not a native Persian speaker, but I'm slowly working on it :-) –jonsafari 00:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about the belated response. I have had little to no internet access lately, and it'll continue for a few more days. Either title is fine with me. I trust your good judgement. –jonsafari 20:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Walaikum Salam

I was busy doing some job-related work during past weeks, but now I am back and we can work together for our common goals towards Roman Urdu/Hindi & Hindustani. I am currently reading the article The Modern International Standard Letters of Alphabet for URDU - HINDUSTANI - "THE" INDIAN LANGUAGE. I will hit you back soon. By da way, thanx for remembering me and scrapping me on my talk page several times during my absence. Salam! -Fayyaz Abbas 31.08.06

link to Persian

Hello, when you want to link to the article about something Persian, please do not link to Persian, as that is a disambiguation page (which nothing should be linked to). Instead link to the one of the options found on that page such as Persian people, Persian language, or Iran, by writing out ] or ]. Regards, Jeff3000 06:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Hindi and Urdu scripts

I noticed that you have added Hindi and Urdu scripts to many articles. I really appreciate your work, but it seems that their are quite a few mistakes made. Just a few tips: check Google, the right Hindi/Urdu spelling will give you thousands of results, and its best to write the script manually instead of using a software. Thanks, --Mar de Sin 19:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I am really sorry for having to revert/remove your Nagari-script edits, but I felt the importance of it was too little. For example, Pakistani film is almost unheard of in India, and is targeted toward the Urdu speaking population, not really including Hindustani. And also, there is no need to put Devanagari on many Indo-Muslim articles, since Urdu is the predominant language, and if you start using Devanagari/Hindi, then the addition of other Indian languages/scripts would be justified, which would really be insignificant. Shukria aur khuda hafiz, Mar de Sin 21:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I see how Devanagari can be relevant. Nevertheless, I wouldn't think that the number of Indo-Muslims who don't know Urdu script would be too significant, but I guess it is very much possible. I will accept your changes on these pages. If you would like to learn how to fully read/write devanagari and/or Urdu script, omniglot is a great way to start. And software is a great source too, but some minor fixes must be done to the orginal phrase in order to transliterate it, e.g. pagal -> paagal, mein-> me.n, thanda -> ThanDaa . Bahut shukria aur khuda hafiz, Mar de Sin 01:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Bollywood

Anupam sir, Pls give references for your claim that bollywood films are produced in Hindustani language.-Bharatveer 05:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Anupam sir, Pls see Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources& Misplaced Pages:No original research.

Posters do not make reliable sources; pls cite any source that claim Bollywood movies are made in Hindustani language.Preferably the Certificate given by the Censor board of India clearly gives the name of the language in which film is made. I would request you to cite any of such certificates here.-Shanti, shanti and more shanti-Regards-Bharatveer 04:29, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikibooks

Hello! Can you contribute to the Urdu Wikibook (in Wikibooks) Please?

Thanks and Successfully!!!

User:Cool Cat/In many languages...

Thank you for the Hindustani translation --Cat out 15:02, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Phoenician alphabet

I don't know whether putting the Devanagari script is a good idea, since Devanagari deviates so much from Phoenician, with 2 d's, 2 t's, so many ways of represent gimel, etc, and no letter at all for some sounds. Bahut shukria aur Khuda hafiz, Mar de Sin 00:39, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

And I also believe that the other alphabets' letters on the chart are direct derivatives of the Phoenician letter, which isn't true for Devangari. Mar de Sin 00:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The thing about Brahmic-from-Phoenician is unsourced. To be a language on the chart, I would think that there is a definitive history for each letter deriving from Phoenician. For example, it it known where each of the arabic letters come from, since the abjad system was basically the exact order as phoenician, e.g. Alif, Baa, Jeem/Geem, Daal, compared to Aleph Beth Gimel Daleth. The Hebrew script was based on the Phoenician in almost the same way as the arabic, and the Greek system was really too. From Greek there comes both Latin and Cyrillic, and although deviate a bit from Phoenician, their link is still definitive. Devanagari and even Brahmi have no definite link to Phoenician, and the way the letters are arranged was based on Panini (k kh g gh ng...). And Phoenician is a Semitic script, not Indo-European. I hope this clears up anything, and let me know what you think! Thanks! Mar de Sin 19:04, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I have removed the Devanagari/Hindi column. If you have any more concerns/comments, feel free to discuss on my talk page. Bahut bahut shukria! Mar de Sin 19:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

September Esperanza Newsletter

Pugnacious attitude

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that Bharatveer likes fights, and is actively looking for articles that I edit and making provocative changes. As if to say, "Nyah nyah nyah." Zora 20:38, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm a Buddhist gori. American (Swedish-Texan heritage) and I live in Honolulu. I was once passionately involved in many of the Islam-related articles, just as a way of understanding Islam, but I have since tried to stay out of the fray. The problem is a continually changing roster of editors, 95% of whom have no academic training but a great many prejudices and even hatreds. We get a compromise worked out, a decent article written, and then someone new comes along and wants to know why the Muhammad article doesn't say Muhammad was a pedophile and rapist. It breaks my heart. Even the Bollywood articles are increasingly problematic. We have the Hindutva crusaders and then we have the gonzo fans who are sure that Shahrukh or Amitabh or Sridevi or Rani is the pinnacle of human achievement, perfect in every way, and that his or her article must be a shrine to the beloved one. Are American fans that nuts? I don't edit Hollywood actor articles. I wouldn't know.

Oh, and as for me being respected -- take a look at my user page and the names people have called me. I was tickled pink when I was called a Jew and an Islamofascist bitch, both on the same day! Zora 06:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

In many languages...

Thank you, Anupam, for contributing to my in many languages… page! I appreciate it very much, and I will remember you if I have any questions about your language. Thank you again! —  $PЯINGεrαgђ  16:46, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Jal

Putting Hindi (or Divangari) in first line alongside Urdu gives a wrong idea as if Divangara is standard in the Band's country of origin. You can put Divangari in Etymology section whcih will make more sense as Jal is a very informal and almost obselete word in Urdu. Thanks! Szhaider 05:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

A correction for the record

I do not add Urdu scripts to specifically Indian articles. I add Urdu script to only those articles whcih are relevent to Pakistan. Szhaider 05:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Pashtun

Urdu-speaking Muslims are not Pashtun, they are just plain Indian Muslims. OK. Just referencing from the “The Joshua Project Website” is not going to cut it. I want to see a proper government census by mother-tongue to prove your claims. Napoleon12 7:58, 16 October 2006

Clearly the people with Pashtun heritage for more than three genertions ago and have lost Pashtun culture cannot be classified as Pushtuns. Nearly 25% of Urdu speaking Muslims in Pakistan, Bangladesh and India are in this category. Claiming 11 million Pashtuns in India cannot be accepted. They now belong to Urdu speaking ethnic group.

Siddiqui 03:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Saare Jahan Se Achcha

I dont wish to go 3rr, even though it is combatting vandalism. Please see to it to take whatever action you see fit.Bakaman _Bakatalk 03:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the well-researched comment.Bakaman _Bakatalk 04:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Hindi

Thank you, Anupam. The lesson is quite insightful, although I doubt I will ever fully understand exactly when one should use half-letters. If you ever do find the company that was mailing out gratis copies of the Qur'an, please do let me know.

When I finish my faux-Shakespearian comedy, I'll let you know. As of now, I'm working on ACT I Scene III. With Regards, Smc117tcc07 15:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Pashtun people

Salam Anupam,

Sorry for that, I didnt even notice that, but luckily you did, so thank you for that. I'll try to fix it or put it the way you did.

Thanks alot for your advice and kind words and encouragement.

With regards, Tajik-Afghan

Roman Urdu

Sorry that I'm busy, but I will finish the table as soon as I have time, which may well be this weekend. Thanks, and Khuda hafiz! Mar de Sin 00:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm really sorry that I still don't have the time. I'm sorry to have to request you to ask another editor to aid you in this task. Thank you, and Khuda hafiz! Mar de Sin 01:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Purdah

I see that the article purdah has an editwar. May I suggest that you insert purdah into the section "Other meanings" instead of the beginning of the article, because it has little relevance to the first and largest section. This way, I think both parties can be satisfied. Thanks and Khuda hafiz! Mar de Sin 22:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I think that some articles do deserve Hindi script. However, from my perception, Pakistani bands are not really that popular across the border, unlike how Indian films are very popular in Pakistan. Pakistani films also go largely unnoticed by Indian Bollywood aficionados. For some of the articles like purdah, azad, etc., Hindi script should go wherever relvant. Thanks! Mar de Sin 22:36, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, many Pakistani bands are well known in India and appear on Indian music sites. However, the pages with Hindi scripts should only be limited to the ones that are known in India. Thanks! Mar de Sin 23:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

If any revert war starts, it's best not to revert until a consensus is reached, as the 3RR rule is more strict now (I think). Thanks. Mar de Sin 01:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you should bring up the topic on either Szhaider's talk page or the talk page of the relevant article. I'm sorry but I don't wish to become too involved in this as I am still rather busy-- bahut afsos ki baat hai, ab sirf chhote edits karsakta hoon :(. Khuda hafiz. Mar de Sin 01:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Bahut bahut shukria, aap ki bad.i mehrbani hai! Mar de Sin 01:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Devanagari script

You're stepping into a minefield here and I may not be the best person to advise. For whatever it's worth, I'd suggest that you limit the supplementary Devanagari to material that is sold and advertised in India, and perhaps phrase it thus: "When appearing in India, or sold in India, rendered as XXX in Devanagari." That makes it very clear that you aren't attempting to claim the material for India, that you're just trying to reach out to Indian fans who might not be able to read the Urdu script. Take it slow and don't act as if you're a tank division heading for Islamabad! :) Zora 02:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Bindi (decoration)

Please have a look at the talk page there. This is yet another instance of a certain cadre of editors replacing references to South Asia with the term "Indian sub-continent." Laying claim to the whole sub-continent. Zora 07:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Zora, You are just being out of your senses.Pls try to look things in their proper persepective.Partition of India happened and no one here wants to stake a claim to whole subcontinent anymore.But your argument that the the word "Indian" is Inflammatory and therefore it should not be used is illogical to say the least.-Bharatveer 08:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The third para means it in a geogrphical term anyways so subcontinent is the more useful term.Bakaman _Bakatalk 04:16, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, one use in the article was in a geographical sense. I think South Asia is pretty offensive to the majority of "South Asians" (who live in the Indian subcontinent), lol. Bakaman _Bakatalk 05:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Bakasuprman, I hang out on a few desi blogs, like Sepia Mutiny, Bollywood Fugly, and Razib's genetics blog, and South Asian is the term used. By desis. They also use the term "brown" (as opposed to "black" or "white") but it doesn't seem to be catching on outside the blogosphere. South Asia may be denigrated in your circle of friends but in the online desi world, it seems to be well-accepted. Zora 08:07, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Afghanistan articles

Thanks for taking the time to comment upon the solid work that user NisarKand is doing in some areas of Misplaced Pages. The main Afghanistan article and a few others are strangely written from a modern Persian Nationalistic perspective--very wierd. Initially NisarKand's edits and attempts to insert information that was not tainted with this bias were simply reverted due to complaints, but I pointed out that a lot of his information is correct, and he has contributed a lot, so the initial wholesale reversions, at least, where removed. It has, however, turned into a serious eidt war with plenty of name-calling on all sides, though, so I'm not willing to participate until cooler heads prevail. NisarKand knows quite a bit about the history of Afghanistan and the Pashtun peoples, and it would be a shame to lose him as an editor. KP Botany 17:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's quite a bit of work to get the neutral point of view in. It's hard enough copyediting, alone, when it seems to engage you in an editwar, too. Salaam, KP Botany 20:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

November Esperanza Newsletter

Reply

Thanks for notifying me. As predicted, Sarvagnya (see wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/sarvagnya) thinks that bringing a few socks and fellow Kannada users has formed a "consensus". I think its funny because AFAIK, the Hindu and Urdu users reached a compromise, and its weird how some DMK style anti-Hindi deletionism still managed to creep up.Bakaman _Bakatalk 17:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Vidya Balan

Hi! Coud you kindly explain the reasons behind the edit war on the page (concerning addition of her name in Urdu)? Thanks for your time.--thunderboltz 16:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Your Urdu

On your user page you claim to be native speaker of Urdu. I have noticed Urdu scripts that you have added to a variety of articles. Please do not take it personally. It is necessary to tell you for the sake of quality of the material presented at Misplaced Pages that Urdu scripts that you have added are completely wrong in 99% of the cases. I have fixed most of them in Pakistan related article. Please confirm the validity of the Urdu scripts before adding them to any articles. Szhaider 23:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Etymology of Hindi

Anupam, I notice that you watch the Hindi article. I added a discussion item about the etymology of the term "Hindi" to the Hindi talk page. I'd appreciate your comments. Sarayuparin 06:03, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Namaste Anupam, sadly the language dispute where disruptive users try to whitewash Hindi has continued, with Sarvagnya attacking me and accusing me of "promoting a nationalist agenda". I find it hilarious, being of course instrumental in bringing together, Nastaliq script readers, Devanagari script readers, Bengalis, Marathis, and Malayalis together united in a common goal. See the nice long rant at Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Hkelkar#Statement_on_User:Bakasuprman_by_User:Sarvagnya. We need sensible users to add some sense to that section, so its not full of nonsense.Bakaman _Bakatalk 04:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Its about user Hkelkar (who I have collaborated with on many pages) but users like Sarvagnya and KNM have taken time to bring the Kannada-Marathi dispute to the table and accuse me of many things. Since you were the calm voice on that page, your comments would help debunk the nonsense pasted by these editors inspired by regional conflict. Its funny how you and me worked with NAstaliq readers, NAgari readers, Bengalis, MAlayalis, Tamils, and MArathis to build consensus yet we are still defined by sarvagnya as the "Hindi Prachar Sabha" or "people that will lose their minds if precious Devanagari is removed from the page". What I will lose my mind over is tendentious editors POV-pushing and disruptive editing by regionalistic editors bent on making wiki a battleground.Bakaman _Bakatalk 18:37, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Your words will weigh heavily, seeing as you've been more calm and civil than most of the users on that page.Bakaman _Bakatalk 16:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Namaste Anupam, since you commented on the arbcom, this proposition Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Hkelkar/Workshop#Bakasuprman may be of interest to you.Bakaman _Bakatalk 20:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!

Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Anupam! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. AmiDaniel (talk) 06:50, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Vidya Balan

The discussion there might interest you. The discussion is with Zora, who accuses myself, Bharatveer, and Deepujoseph (a Malayali admin) of censorship on wiki. I suggested that an Urduwiki link can be added to the article, so that those readers who wish for Nastaliq can read a whole article instead of merely her name.Bakaman _Bakatalk 17:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, actually preferrably the only language link that would be there is the lang of her ethnicities (Malayali and Tamil). I cant read/write Tamil so thats a problem. I'll try and find some Tamil users though. They're working to build consensus on the case so your input will help in the discussion.Bakaman _Bakatalk 15:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Namaste

Anupam, pls see Carnatic Music . This sort of deletion & retention of scripts cannot be restricted to some articles alone .So pls go and revert what you have done now.-Bharatveer 04:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not India

Rules & regulations should be applied for all articles wihtout exceptions.-Bharatveer 05:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

weak knowledge

All I have to say is your knowledge is weak and poor.I dont need you to tell me about the Muhajirs first of all,as my father is one. Second of all,Urdu might have developed in what is today india but it's parent languages is where it's heritage lies.Sanscrit was spoken in Multan.Where is that?You wont need a map I'll tell you:its in Pakistan.

As for you "acadmic" vision of what you call "history",you seem to lack in it. The so called "partician of india" is my best example.A provincecalled Punjab gets divided into two states and you cry "India got divided".Syria and Turkey were under the rule of the Ottoman empire,so by your arguemnt,Turks and Syrians are "the same" or that "Syria got divded into two".

India is in fact a whole day YOUNGER than Pakistan as it was liberated a whole day later by the British.The so-called land of "India" was nothing but independant states before the arrival of the British.It only became "one"(against their will,which explains the sepratist movements all across "India" today.) when the British forced all of south asia to live as ONE COLONY. When they arrived,they used the term the ancient Greeks did to refer to south asia,but again the term meant NOTHING to the people of South Asia.

Coming back to Urdu,your arguemnt that because it was simply born in what is today India,it automatically becomes "Indian". Let's make a similar arguemnt.The modern Turkish language evolved and now is spoken in Turkey,a country geographically located in Europe.SO by your arguement,your saying that Turkish should automatically gain the status of a European language just because it happens to evolve into what it is today in Europe.-LOL Sorry but reference to the Indus is staying in Pakistan's history article and if you do happen to tamper with it,you're asking for trouble.

We Pakistanis take more pride in our heritage than you Indians realise.

Oh one last thing."educated Muhajirs"(???)I didnt know ALL muhajirs were educated.I wonder then,why 90% of Karachi(a predominantly Muhajir city)lives in poverty.Nadirali 01:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC)Nadirali