Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sportspeople: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 05:40, 10 July 2020 editCoolabahapple (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users84,534 edits added afd of Paul Crarey.← Previous edit		Revision as of 09:20, 10 July 2020 edit undoSir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled18,508 edits Listing Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Austin Koledoye. (TW)Next edit →
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Sportspeople

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 12:57, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Austin Koledoye

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The subject fails WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. The sources used do not demonstrate notability. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 09:20, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete the sourcing does not amount to passing GNG.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete notable --Devokewater (talk) 15:06, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete, coaches practitioners at a too low level. Geschichte (talk) 17:32, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete, no indication of notability. Although I do love "He has taught many specimens of different species to play soccer.". TJRC (talk) 01:51, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete- no wp:sigcov to pass his notablity. Dtt1 14:06, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure)   Kadzi   (talk) 20:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Paul Crarey

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He played at amateur and semi-professional level and coached at amateur and semi-pro level. Successful, and did achieve some coverage, but I couldn't establish that he meetsWP:BIO or WP:GNG. Boleyn (talk) 13:26, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Keep Meets WP:RLN as he made over 10 appearances in Challenge Cup games. Nthep (talk) 14:29, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

user:Nthep, thanks for your comment. I could only find him having involvement in Challenge Cup games as a coach, have you seen a source of him playing in one? Thanks for your help, Boleyn (talk) 15:09, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

None that are currently online but for Barrow v Huddersfield in January 1989 for one. There's going to be a large set of rugby league records published soon which will take care of a lot of borderline situations like this one. Nthep (talk) 16:14, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

That's a tricky one, as we do need a source (as we can't accept WP:OR) to establish it happened but we want to be clear whether he is notable or not. Boleyn (talk) 07:40, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

It wouldn't be OR, just a printed source. But I'm a bit loathe to add a reference to a single match report to establish that he meets WP:RLN when this is about general notability. I think there is enough especially of his more recent career as a coach for that to be established. It's a side issue but I am unhappy with RLN and its marginalising all UK based players outside of Super League when the lower two divisions are an integral part of the sport. Nthep (talk) 14:10, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

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Keep Meets WP:NATHLETE. Ambrosiawater (talk) 23:10, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:40, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Isak Hansen-Aarøen

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The Norwegian First Division is not fully professional. While he is transferring to Manchester United, he will be but one in the crowd of child players there. Geschichte (talk) 21:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

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Keep - he have played for a fully professional club at a national level of the league structure. Corwin of Amber (talk) 05:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

The club's status is not the question, it's the league's status. And the Norwegian First Division is far from it. Geschichte (talk) 07:12, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Meets GNG, see the sources in the article. Same case as Luqman Hakim Shamsudin, Hannibal Mejbri & many others. More sources to follow in August. --Corwin of Amber (talk) 05:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Delete the league the subject is in is not fully professional.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete He has made one appearance, but not in a fully professional league. Just because he's joining Man Utd, that doesn't make him notable (as we don't have articles on Man Utd youth players unless they've played in a FPL). No evidence they pass WP:GNG either. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Has only played 1 minute in Norwegian 2nd tier, which is not fully pro! Giant Snowman 15:11, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom --Devokewater (talk) 21:15, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete. He has not played on an international level, fails WP:NFOOTBALL. Alex-h (talk) 14:42, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Spartaz 22:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Stephen Banaszak

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The sourcing on this article is way below the very minimum level to meet the general notability guidelines John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:33, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

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Comment This is an interesting case. He clearly meets WP:NMMA with 5 top tier fights with Bellator when it was a top tier MMA organization. On the other hand, my search didn't find what I believe to be the significant independent coverage required to meet WP:GNG. I found lots of what I'd call routine sports reporting and listings in databases, but that doesn't prove notability. WP:NSPORT says meeting an SNG carries the "presumption" of notability, but it's not a guarantee. That's a factor in this case since we're not talking about someone whose notability claims are from decades before the internet, but rather someone who met the SNG in 2015. Perhaps others can show significant coverage. Papaursa (talk) 03:22, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete due to lacking the in-depth reliable sources that are needed for notability. Which is odd considering his career and it being fairly recent, but whatever. There's no point in having a badly referenced article. Especially since it can be recreated when or if the sources are good enough for it to be. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:17, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. GNG appears to be met, and doesn't state that local coverage is automatically insignificant; that would present huge issues with the definition of the word "local", apart from anything else. (non-admin closure) Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 20:20, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Alan Gooch

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Gooch served as a long-time assistant coach at the University of Central Florida, but only served as head coach for two games in an interim capacity, replacing the dismissal of the prior head coach at the end of the season.

Since leaving his coaching position, he has served as ED of a non-notable Florida sports organization.

The only citation on the page (added by me today) is the reference to the organization's leadership page confirming him as their ED. I have been able to find any significant coverage. WikiDan61_ReadMe!! 18:53, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete Lack of sourcing and only playing two games as a head coach due to a staffing issue doesn't really make him notable enough for an article IMO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamant1 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Devokewater (talk) 21:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete He was never the regular head coach, interim appointments are not the same as permanent ones.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Comment. There is some coverage, see here, here, here, here, and here. Ejgreen77 (talk) 10:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment All of these are from Orlando or Tampa Bay papers, which amounts to local coverage, not significant coverage. WikiDan61_ReadMe!! 11:18, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Comment. WIKI would not want to exclude coverage from a regional source, it's important to the narrative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Poshable (talk • contribs) 16:20, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment @Poshable: No, we would not necessarily exclude regional coverage, but if that is all that is available, then it's an indication that the subject does not merit inclusion and should be deleted. WikiDan61_ReadMe!! 22:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep clearly notable subject. Passes GNG per Ejgreen77's sources among others. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:29, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep aside from the coverage that passes WP:GNG, we typically keep articles about Division I head football coaches regardless of their term. Even an interim coach normally generates enough press to surpass the general notability guideline and I see no reason to make an exception here.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:58, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Also, Gooch won a major national award as an assistant at the I-A/FBS level. I believe the argument has been made that winning such an award should confer notability in the the case that the recipient was never a head coach, interim or permanent. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
  - UPDATE: looks like he's currently the executive director of the Cure Bowl. Seeing more indications of WP:IMPACT.--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:23, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep. Meets WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. There is no prohibition on the use of local coverage to establish notability for biography articles under GNG, despite the best efforts of deletionists to gaslight us all into believing otherwise. All that is required is that the coverage be significant (not passing mentions or namedrops), the sources be reliable and independent of the subject, and that there be multiple examples of such coverage (i.e., more than one). Ejgreen77 (talk) 10:51, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep, per WP:GNG, and Ejgreen77.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 16:57, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

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Keep per WP:GNG. Was the head coach of two I-A games. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 14:56, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:58, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Anatoliy Karpenko

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Subject does not meet the GNG, and no evidence that he meets any notability criteria has been proffered in over a decade. Article was created shortly before the editor's indef block for account abuse. Ravenswing 11:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Delete Not notable. killer bee  11:22, 9 July 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by K6bee9 (talk • contribs)

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Delete per nom. Being the world's one-time fiftieth best ski jumper falls far short of notability. ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 13:41, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Delete fails General notability guideline as per above and also has no news coverage whatsoever. CreativeNorth (talk) 14:14, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Tone 19:25, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Brandon Cutler

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Fails WP:GNG. Poor references. Not notable. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 00:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete a non-notable professional wrestler.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:33, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete Fails GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 20:12, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 11:33, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Mauricio Acosta

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Footballer who fails GNG and NFOOTY. No senior appearances, no significant coverage. --BlameRuiner (talk) 11:43, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Delete - I don't see any reliable sources that discuss the topic in detail. Interstellarity (talk) 12:09, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep - As a footballer he has a record in the main pages of this sport. Most of the sportsmen do not have as reference the media. --Fittipaldi92 (talk) 15:03, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 10:32, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete total fail of the GNG.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 11:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Ņikita Juhņevičs

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Never played professionally. Geschichte (talk) 10:52, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 10:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete Sources are pretty WP:ROUTINE, can't see him passing GNG or NFooty. Govvy (talk) 14:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete fails WP:NFOOTY and WP:GNG. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Fenix down (talk) 11:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Rasmus Tauts

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Never played professionally. Geschichte (talk) 10:53, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 10:32, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Fenix down (talk) 07:12, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Federico Del Frate

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Does not meet either WP:NFOOTY or WP:GNG Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 02:33, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 11:43, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Draft With Monza's promotion to Serie B and their issues with the goalkeepers, (injuries), there could be a fair chance he could pass WP:NFOOTY for the 2020-21 season. I think it would be better to served to put the article in draft-space for now. Govvy (talk) 12:17, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Govvy: I support Monza, and I don't really know what you mean with GK injuries ahaha. Eugenio Lamanna will probably play all the games; we also have Daniele Sommariva as a GK. Anyway, I agree in putting him in the draft space. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 12:37, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, Del Frate has more experience that Sommariva and last I knew Lamanna tweeked his right elbow, that must of been nothing then if he is fully fit. I wouldn't be surprised if Del Frate is on the bench a lot. Govvy (talk) 13:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@Nehme1499: you never can tell what could happen. I would support moving the article to draftspace for now. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:15, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails NFOOTY and GNG Spiderone 11:13, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Roberto Arredondo

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Non-notable boxer that fails NBOX and GNG. .O. 00:35, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Sandstein 07:05, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Jhean Carlo Aparicio

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Non-notable boxer that fails NBOX and GNG. The sole reference in the article are details of a fight and the only other article I could find besides passing mentions of fight results (in English and Spanish) is this. Neither show significant coverage of the subject. .O. 23:45, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete Fails notability requirements and poorly sourced. --James Richards (talk) 12:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 13:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

T. J. McCreight

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Found during cleanup of CAT:NN as this has now been tagged for over a decade, I could not find any coverage of him that wasn't transactional (McCreight signs with Browns, McCreight signs with Cardinals, etc) in my WP:BEFORE search, fails WP:GNG. SportingFlyer T·C 17:08, 6 July 2020 (UTC) SportingFlyer T·C 17:08, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete I did find a number of "articles" with passing mentions, but the sources seem to not be the typical reliable news sources to me. Further, the articles and mentions seem to be "transactional" in nature, and we've typically not considered such mentions as definitive toward notability. I don't really see any third party articles that meet WP:GNG and the coverage that I do find does not seem to provide any significant WP:IMPACT at this time. Naturally, that could all change based on other sources that I cannot find or future events--but based on what I can find and the article as it is currently presented I do not see any notability for the subject.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete I nominated this article for deletion in April (the discussion closed as "no consensus" after only three !voters participated), so I'm copying my rationale here again. Fails WP:GNG, no significant coverage. High-level NFL executive who has not yet been a general manager and no other claims to notability. It is rare for non-GM executives to receive significant enough coverage to pass GNG. This is his most up-to-date bio for reference as the article is hard to read. Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete per Nom: A 2009 unsourced BLP that does not pass any notability criteria for inclusion. -- Otr500 (talk) 11:45, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Tone 20:31, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

James Osborne (sport shooter)

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Fails WP:GNG, cannot find any coverage of him in a before search, tagged for over a decade. SportingFlyer T·C 17:27, 6 July 2020 (UTC) SportingFlyer T·C 17:27, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

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Comment. If he did win a world championship in his sport then he would be notable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:53, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Source me. I've looked. SportingFlyer T·C 21:13, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Not terribly hard, it would seem. . -- Necrothesp (talk) 00:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

So, Keep. -- Necrothesp (talk) 00:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Necrothesp I suggest you add those sources to the article. Papaursa (talk) 14:08, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

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Weak Keep Although the sourcing of the article isn't great, Necrothesp did find some sources that are reliable and confirm Osborne was a world champion. Papaursa (talk) 14:08, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

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Keep: per Necrothesp. I likewise think that the sourcing is shaky, but the fact that the subject was a world champion is a definite indicator of notability. Ravenswing 17:02, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:34, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Pia Arhar

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The one source her is a primary source, Misplaced Pages is meant to be based on secondary sources. My previous proposed deletion tag was removed on the grounds that I had not shown any search for sources, but no indication that person had either, or even understood what Misplaced Pages is supposed to be. I did a search for sources and came up with unuseable non-reliable stuff like Youtube videos and Misplaced Pages mirrors. I was not even able to come up with one reliable secondary source. I can see no way to bring this article to a state of meeting the GNG, so it needs to be deleted. John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:11, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

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The reference link does not work (competing at the highest level is a proof of notability, though, if it can be sourced). I found some Slovenian references that she was crowned Miss Sport in 2008, but that is not a particularly notable achievement. I'd say delete unless it can be properly sourced. --Tone 16:30, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete; Its WP:TOOSOON. -Hatchens (talk) 03:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Comments It's not too soon--she's 30 years old, so she's not going to get more notable as a gymnast. More importantly, I have corrected the link to her bio at the FIG website. It shows she did compete at the world championships, although she wasn't close to making the finals (which is what the FIG uses to declare someone a "world class gymnast"). The notability criteria at WP:NSPORT#Gymnastics specifically state the criteria only for artistic gymnasts, not rhythmic ones, so I don't know whether or not the same criteria apply. Even if the same criteria apply, that only carries a presumption of notability and my search for coverage didn't find enough to show WP:GNG is met. However, that doesn't mean Slovenian sources don't exist. I'm leaning towards a delete, but I am waiting to see the opinions of others now that her results can be viewed by all. I'll admit I'm far more familiar with martial arts, where just competing at a world championship does not grant notability (even for Olympic sports like judo). Papaursa (talk) 15:28, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DMySon 04:39, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Delete It's been a week since I posted my previous comment and no one has presented any evidence that shows WP:BASIC is met. Combined with the fact that my search didn't find significant independent coverage, I don't think finishing 83rd in the world rhythmic gymnastics championships is enough to grant automatic WP notability. Papaursa (talk) 12:53, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Fenix down (talk) 14:41, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Márk Heinrich

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Non-notable footballer. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 14:29, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Hungarian footballer. It baffles my mind how this "article" managed to stay here since 2012. The article only contains one source, which is not even independent from him. The Hungarian Wiki article also managed to stay there since 2012 but it's also up to deletion there as well. The thing is, Hungarian Misplaced Pages is full of articles on sportspeople like this one (articles that contain only one basic sentence, an infobox and one source which is either a database or a non-independent site) and that is a big problem there. I don't know about that situation here but I know for a fact that this footballer is not notable. I also did a Google search and I did not found anything besides databases and sources which are not independent. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 14:27, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

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Keep - clearly notable, meets WP:NFOOTBALL with (according to Soccerway) at least 100 appearances in the Nemzeti Bajnokság I, the top professional Hungarian league. Giant Snowman 15:10, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep Clear pass of SNG, no evidence of BEFORE from nom. Smartyllama (talk) 17:46, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep - passes NFOOTBALL Spiderone 21:47, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep passes WP:NFOOTY added Ref.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:05, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Comment - His article has been just deleted from Hungarian Misplaced Pages. I know that does not prove anything, just saying. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 16:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep passes NFOOTY. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 15:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep - I see 3 matches in NB-I, not 100 appearances like one previous comment said. But that's still 3x90min of ground-time in a fully professional league, and 1s is enough for NFOOTY. Age 30 isn't necessarily the end of a football career, so we should give a few more years for GNG. Usedtobecool ☎️ 10:19, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 07:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Rafa Escobar

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Fails WP:GNG; doesn't appear to be a notable manager; has never managed a professional club Spiderone 07:35, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 09:53, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete - The team has any importance at the local level. --Fittipaldi92 (talk) 15:09, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. MER-C 10:03, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Vaania Kapoor Achuthan

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Fails WP:GNG, and is clearly not a notable swimmer. Has never been named to a national team. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 22:05, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails WP:GNG; could well be notable in the future but WP:TOOSOON for an article Spiderone 09:08, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete this 19-year-old is not yet a notable swimmer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete She's good, but it's too early in her career yet to establish notability. Sub-national winner isn't important enough. Oaktree b (talk) 02:28, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Sandstein 14:24, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Aditya Raut

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Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 22:07, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete the coverage is not enough to pass the general notability guidelines.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:45, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Comment - Article is currently badly sourced, but the subject may have some notability. "However, the youngest person to swim the Cook Strait is Aditya Raut, from India, who was 11 at the time of his swim in 2005.", as per 1, , — Infogapp1 (talk) 23:33, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Need more investigation into sources provided by Infogapp1
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 10:12, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Delete I don't think that being the youngest person to swim the Cook Strait is a sufficient accomplishment to grant automatic WP notability. The coverage in the article seems fall under WP:NOTNEWS. The first two sources mentioned by Infogapp1 mention Aditya Raut only in passing and I don't see his name in the third source at all (which is only about a school swimming competition). Papaursa (talk) 13:52, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 16:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Joan Kennedy (racquetball)

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Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 14:51, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Fails WP:GNG. Lack of depth of coverage.Knox490 (talk) 15:48, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete inadequate coverage to pass GNG.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:09, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Not notable. Spleodrach (talk) 07:56, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete Top Google hits are informal wikis copy-pasted from this page's summary, which doesn't have the sources to support. KB11001 (talk) 15:22, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. MER-C 10:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Majella Haverty

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Fails WP:GNG. Although there is no notability standards for racquetball, competing in junior events is not notable for all other sports with criteria. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 14:50, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete inadequate sourcing to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Not notable. Spleodrach (talk) 07:57, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

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The result was delete. MER-C 10:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Sathwik Rai

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Fails WP:GNG. Sources listed are not in-depth coverage of the subject. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 14:46, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete a non-notable raquetball player.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:01, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete - not a notable sportsperson Spiderone 06:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 18:01, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Michael Petros

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Doesn't pass either WP:NFOOTY or WP:GNG Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 13:32, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete like I said at WT:FOOTY, he doesn't pass WP:NFOOTY as he's played international futsal not (association) football. And doesn't look to pass WP:GNG either. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Speedy delete per nom. Google search brings up no meaningful results. No debate here. Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 13:55, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 15:40, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete I was trying to work this article out earlier, unfortunately I couldn't see GNG for the English wikipedia. Govvy (talk) 16:00, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep Michael Petros is a professional futsal player and coach in Iran. He has previously been a member of the Iranian national futsal team. So this person is famous. Sufficient sources in Persian are also mentioned for the article. Don't delete articles for no apparent reason because it will reduce the credibility of Misplaced Pages and discourage editors! pournia (talk) 18:04, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment It maybe notable on the Farsi wikipedia, but it doesn't seem to be on English. Govvy (talk) 18:31, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment @Govvy: I don't think that's how it works – per WP:GNG: "Sources may encompass published works in all forms and media, and in any language." Macosal (talk) 13:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Has anyone who has said this fails WP:GNG actually done any source analysis on the Farsi language references or bothered to do a before search in Farsi? The articles I saw were a bit short or were game coverage but if there's other similar coverage then he's clearly been covered significantly in the role. SportingFlyer T·C 22:58, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

SportingFlyer I assume what they meant was that the notability requirements will be different (probably lower) on Farsi Misplaced Pages, so it may be notable there but not on English Misplaced Pages. That was my interpretation of their comment. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:46, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

- I have, and they are all trivial mentions. There aren't enough non-trivial mentions in reliable sources for him to pass GNG, in my opinion. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 23:08, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
  - Thank you. There were a couple references which I thought were more than trivial, but I'm not going to fight too hard for it - just noting there are seven references in the article, and that we don't always do a great job of evaluating these types of articles. SportingFlyer T·C 23:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
    - Of the 7 sources provided in the article, only one seems to be non-trivial. But even then, it's just an interview where he speaks about the national team and the futsal goalkeepers in Iran. Only one question is borderline, where he states where and when he was born, and where he studied (a couple of sentences). It's clear that Petros is an important figure in Iranian futsal, but I don't think that he's notable enough to be included on Misplaced Pages. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 23:54, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
      - As a player, Petros has a history of winning the Iranian Futsal Premier League. Iran Futsal Super League is one of the five most prestigious futsal leagues in the world. pournia (talk) 11:33, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. If having played in a fully professional league doesn't count and WP:GNG is the only guideline that matters, then WP:NFOOTY is totally worthless and should be removed. Feel free to start an RfC on the matter. Until then, NFOOTY has to mean something in the face of whether GNG is met or not. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Matthew Jones (footballer, born 1980)

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While the subject meets, WP:NFOOTY by virtue of having played in a fully-professional league, he fails WP:GNG. I attempted to search with various terms, but found nothing at all that was about this Matthew Jones from Shrewsbury. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 10:54, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Keep for now, problems with thousands of non-GNG'y Football League player articles should be handled in another manner than singling some out every once in a while. At least in the cases where the player played more than a few minutes of one game. Geschichte (talk) 18:17, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Keep - meets NFOOTBALL; needs improving, not deleting. Giant Snowman 12:03, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep per NFOOTY. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 17:49, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

The above arguments are solely based on NFOOTY and are invalid, per the FAQ for NSPORTS, which reads:

Q1: How is this guideline related to the general notability guideline?

A1: The topic-specific notability guidelines described on this page do not replace the general notability guideline. They are intended only to stop an article from being quickly deleted when there is very strong reason to believe that significant, independent, non-routine, non-promotional secondary coverage from multiple reliable sources is available, given sufficient time to locate it. Misplaced Pages's standard for including an article about a given person is not based on whether or not he/she has attained certain achievements, but on whether or not the person has received appropriate coverage in reliable sources, in accordance with the general notability guideline. Also refer to Misplaced Pages's basic guidance on the notability of people for additional information on evaluating notability.

I've bolded for emphasis. NFOOTY is a presumption of notability that guards against speedy deletion and arguably PROD. It does not mandate the keeping of an article about which no in-depth sources have been located. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment I tried looking for some sources to improve the article, but I am not seeing them. This article is very weak and currently fails GNG. Unless there is an improvement, I would agree with PMC's assessment. Govvy (talk) 12:53, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep. The nom even admits he meets WP:NFOOTY! Daft nomination. -- Necrothesp (talk) 17:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Necrothesp, I appreciate that you took into studied consideration my comment regarding GNG and NSPORTS and did not simply resort to childish name-calling. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 12:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Comment The challenge here is that the subject does not meet WP:GNG. It is the consensus of the community that: There is clear consensus that no subject-specific notability guideline, including Notability (sports) is a replacement for or supercedes the General Notability Guideline. Arguments must be more refined than simply citing compliance with a subguideline of WP:NSPORTS in the context of an Articles for Deletion discussion. (Per RFC The criteria of WP:NSPORT here are too inclusive). The closing admin will need to evaluate the NFOOTY/NFOOTBALL arguments given above in the context of community consensus. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 10:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Tone 11:41, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

José Echenique

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I could find a notable mayor of this name, and a basketball player called Gregory Echenique. I could not confirm the information in this article (which would make him notable, if he'd played for a national team). This is an unref blp due to only refs being deadlinks. Boleyn (talk) 09:18, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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I've found an updated version of one of the dead links which is enough to confirm he competed at the 1990 World Championships as claimed, so this is no longer unsourced. However competing in international basketball isn't one of the criteria listed at WP:NBASKETBALL. Hut 8.5 12:09, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

On reflection, delete. WP:SPORTSPERSON and the relevant bit of WP:SPORTCRIT and are intended to be summaries of the more detailed criteria at WP:NSPORT. He doesn't qualify under the basketball-specific part. Looking at the archives of that page I can see a few suggestions to add something which would include international basketball players but it hasn't happened, so I can only assume this is deliberate. Hut 8.5 06:53, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Keep passes WP:SPORTCRIT having played at the highest international level.--User:Namiba 16:33, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete the article lacks anything that is truly an independent source, all the coverage is sources from the organization he was part of.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:12, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep The vast majority of major tournament players are on Misplaced Pages. References are good --Fittipaldi92 (talk) 15:18, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, (t · c) buidhe 09:34, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Keep He does pass WP:SPORTCRIT by having played in the 1990 FIBA World Championship which is the highest level of international basketball alongside the Olympics. He is also a player who played almost all his career in a non-english speaking country pre-Internet so sources regarding him are likely not found with a simple Google search. Alvaldi (talk) 10:56, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep Meets WP:SPORTSPERSON “A sportsperson is presumed to be notable if the person has actively participated in a major amateur or professional competition” SportsOlympic (talk) 21:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Comment Basketball has it's own SNG at WP:NBASKETBALL. There is an ongoing discusiion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(sports)#WP:SPORTSCRIT_clarification_on_international_competitions regarding whether SPORTCRIT applies when a more specific sport criteria exists but doesn't mention a specific international competition (FIBA World Championship in this case).—Bagumba (talk) 10:22, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep Meets SPORTCRIT. ~EDDY ~ 12:27, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep unfortunately meets WP:SPORTCRIT]], although that says more about the guideline than the subject's notability! ——Serial 18:19, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 05:34, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Faruk Statovci

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Footballer who fails GNG and NFOOTY. National cap earned years before Kosovo was recognized by FIFA. Coaching career limited to Kosovo Second Division clubs --BlameRuiner (talk) 07:56, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete per nom. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 10:27, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 15:40, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Comment seems to get ongoing coverage in Albanian-language Kosvar media. What's the concern here? Nfitz (talk) 03:51, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- The concern is that coverage is pure WP:ROUTINE. He has left the club X, he has joined the club Y. Not even close to meeting GNG. --BlameRuiner (talk) 10:36, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
  - I didn't see stuff like that. It was quotes related to upcoming games ... and Covid-related issues. Nfitz (talk) 12:51, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete does not meet our insanely broad inclusion criteria for footballers.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:26, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Tone 20:35, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Dmitry Erokhin

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Advertising for a Russian Misplaced Pages editor who working for money. Last nomination was fully supported by people's of Dmitry Erokhin, who always support him pages (if have any problems) in Russian Misplaced Pages ( "fan club"). Author of page Special:Contributions/Mark_Ekimov have 95% PR activity, mostly him pages deleted as PR/promo, have violations of WP:PAID, he take care Erokhin's profile on WikiData. Now the article on the Russian Misplaced Pages about Erokhin is proposed for removal, users says that he not pass WP:NOTABILITY: he is not a professional athlete, only an amateur activist. Special:Contributions/Дмитрий_Кошелев - inactive user, who mark himself as paid editor (possible vote "for money" or sockpuppet/member "fun club" of Erokhin), Special:Contributions/Ssr - possible Erokhin's lawyer (protect page on ru.wiki: ru:Обсуждение:Ерохин, Дмитрий Юрьевич). Pages on another wikis created by him community or another friends of Erokhin (he have a big PR agency in Russia about create pages on Misplaced Pages for money, its mean he can pay to people for him PR). Кронас (talk) 07:24, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment. I am not a lawyer, Erokhin is a lawyer, I cannot protect any page at Misplaced Pages because I am not an admin with any authority to protect pages. Erokhin is a Misplaced Pages popularizer and has lots of different friends, many of them wikipedians. Your words about "fan club" violate WP:CIVIL. Being friends with someone does not violate Misplaced Pages rules. On the contrary, Misplaced Pages organizers encourage people to be friends and to collaborate on Misplaced Pages in friendly way. Your personal attacks on other Wikipedians with trying to declare their friendship as evil violate WP:5P. You are trying to delete a biography page about a person by telling how bad other Wikipedians are. This is not a legitimate reason for deletion and contradicts with Wikimedia collaboration and good faith principles. Erokhin's paid Misplaced Pages activities are properly declared in full compliance with WP:PAID. You are trying to attack him across several language Wikipedias (you confirm that) and your nomination serves purposes of your "global" attack and is not based on English Misplaced Pages rules. --ssr (talk) 18:10, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Lawyer isn't mean lawyer as real job, it mean word about paid advocacy. Erokhin isn't "Misplaced Pages popularizer", he is standard user, who strongly connected with paid advocacy. He need PR-page in Misplaced Pages about him for promote him services (e.g. "look, I can create page about myself, its mean I can create page about you too... for money"). Words about club have confirmation in my nomination, in last discussion was a 3 users: 1 confirmed undeclared WP:PAID + author of page Dmitry Erokhin + moderator of him Wikidata page, 1 possible sock/mit puppet and 1 (you) possible undeclared WP:PAID (for instance, before you create page Ilya Sachkov, that only PR users show interest on it, in ru-wiki everybody confirm, that pages about Sachkov and Group-IB is strong advertising, in en-wiki your page was deleted as crosswiki spam). Next, I explain about the reason for the removal this page: Erokhin’s records are unofficial and recorded by organization affiliated with him, ho have official international recognition (which was recognized in the deletion discussion in ru.wiki), original page in ru wiki (which was simply translated into English and else 12 languages all by friends and colleagues of Erokhin) was created for PR purposes, and him activity about Misplaced Pages fully isn't notable. Кронас (talk) 14:49, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

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Update: deleted page about Erokhin on es-wiki as cross-wiki PR/spam. Кронас (talk) 19:48, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Very exciting investigation! I'm your fan! — Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:45, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep. The person is notable by WP:BASIC: has articles in RIA Novosti, RT, Rossiyskaya Gazeta, The Moscow News, NTV, Dozhd. — Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 06:46, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- No have any international and foreighner articles (no have any normal sources in English), only in russian news, where is can buy page very easy and for small money (look like this Erokhin has a big salary and can pay easly). Misplaced Pages need independent and highly respected sources. But your sources is mix of interviews, some short references and promo pages. Regards, Alexei 5.101.194.158 (talk) 19:53, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
  - Is the Eurosport a fairly independent source (1, 2)? – Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 16:01, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete, fails WP:NSPORT ("Trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may be used to support content in an article, but it is not sufficient to establish notability"). Clearly WP:G11 (Unambiguous advertising or promotion) + undisclosed WP:PAID. Important: 64% of pages deleted as promotion. 166.239.110.60 (talk) 07:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Keep, no extra value is added since previous nomination but nomination only talks about how bad are some users regardless of article content, which approach is prohibited. --ssr (talk) 11:26, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete per WP:TNT. Perhaps there's a genuine wiki-notability case buried under all the self-promotion, but it's not our job to find it. XOR'easter (talk) 17:21, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete. He obviously is not notable as a WP:SPORTSPERSON, because he is an activist. But I do not believe there is enough coverage of his activism, either related to sports or related to Misplaced Pages (which is something in between popularizing ruwiki and creating PR-articles in it, unfortunately). Wikisaurus (talk) 15:03, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete Evidently non-notable as an athlete, Misplaced Pages activity though noble bends toward self promotion. No Swan So Fine (talk) 22:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Not notable by WP:SPORTSPERSON, sources isn’t independent. Person is just some local activist who like connect with some newspapers and agencies, he just like running everywhere. Else too much PR activity, Misplaced Pages isn’t a soapbox or means of promotions (per WP:PROMOTION). 94.25.170.164 (talk) 10:51, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was keep. Fenix down (talk) 07:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Alex Samizadeh

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Despite passing on WP:NFOOTY, their is a lack of sources that it will be able to be justified passing WP:GNG with most of the references being about the loan from Bolton which would be routine stuff. HawkAussie (talk) 06:04, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

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Delete Article is not properly referenced. Ashishkafle (talk) 07:45, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

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Keep - meets NFOOTBALL with professional appearances in 2 leagues, and has ingoing non-league career. Needs improving, not deleting. Giant Snowman 11:29, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Weak Keep There are major weaknesses with the article, WP:GNG is not really passable at the moment as sources are WP:ROUTINE. He is only 21, and passes WP:NFOOTBALL, but his career is still on going, if it was finished then I might of gone with delete. Govvy (talk) 18:47, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Keep: Passes WP:NFOOTY. Seany91 (talk) 04:50, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep - Passes NFOOTY with appearances for two different teams. There's a bit of English coverage ... and some more in Farsi - none of which quite meets GNG, but enough to detail his career. Nfitz (talk) 22:15, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep: Passes WP:NFOOTY.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 08:44, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Delete As it stands, he unfortunately fails WP:GNG as mentioned above after a source review. His WP:NFOOTY pass is marginal - two games in two leagues, and he was subbed on in both, and according to Soccerway played a total of eight combined minutes. While we typically keep young players whose career is ongoing, he's currently playing in Tier 8, four below any NFOOTY-qualifying English division. If I'm mistaken on the source review, please ping me with the GNG-satisfying coverage. SportingFlyer T·C 01:09, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

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Keep Passes WP:NFOOTY, although better referencing is needed or else this will be relisted for deletion in the near future. Capt. Milokan (talk) 19:15, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep Poorly referenced at the moment but has an ongoing career and I imagine could be improved to somewhere near GNG standard.Microwave Anarchist (talk) 23:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep - passes NFOOTY Spiderone 08:58, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep Passes WP:NFOOTY. فرهنگ2016 (talk) 13:02, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. Tone 10:07, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Johnathan Bagley

AfDs for this article:

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Non-notable amateur sportsman - as per WP:CUENOT and WP:NSPORT, being ranked 270th and never making it past the pre-qualifying rounds is not enough to make his professional career notable - as for his amateur career, he has had some success...competing as an amateur, on an amateur tour, in amateur events featuring ex-professional players - a tour from which professionals are excluded. If we keep Jonathan Bagley, if we believe competing on the World Seniors Tour is enough to make him notable, we must have articles for every player who competes on that tour and indeed every other player whose only achievements have been at amateur level. We either do that or we stick by the guidelines we currently have in place, under which there is clearly no place here for an article for Jonathan Bagley. Montgomery15 (talk) 16:01, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

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Keep - Meets WP:GNG. There's no "sticking to guidelines" here, as there is enough press about the player, specifically because of the recent quality on the World Seniors Tour. , , , - plus the qualifying for the World Snooker Championship last year. I'm not saying we should create articles on all amateur players, but we also shouldn't be afraid to create them on players who get significant coverage. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 16:23, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Comment - as per WP:GNG, "Presumed" means that significant coverage in reliable sources creates an assumption, not a guarantee, that a subject merits its own article. A more in-depth discussion might conclude that the topic actually should not have a stand-alone article . This is that in-depth discussion, which I note is being had for the second time - not because the article was nominated for deletion once, but that it was deleted once , as a result of that first discussion, and subsequently resurrected by yourself. What right you have to contradict the consensus that was reached in that discussion is not known to me or, I suspect, anybody else.
When pressed for reasons as to why it should stay after all, you've come up with two sources that mention the subject in detail, and two that mention him briefly, and passed those off as significant coverage. The sources are news articles on the fan-run websites SnookerHub and SnookerHQ; here, one member of WikiProject Snooker, while suggesting we cast out some fan-run websites such as CueTracker, at the same time endorses others such as SnookerHub and SnookerHQ. Who is that member? Lee Vilenski, of course.
In the previous discussion, you used as your reason for keeping the article the fact that he had once qualified for the professional tour, and that as he had competed as a professional, he was notable. You know snooker, I'm sure, so you should be aware that in 1991, when Bagley turned professional, there was no qualification process; you or I could have paid our membership fees to the sport's governing body, and we would have been professionals, competing in professional events. Hundreds of people did just this, and Bagley was among them. If we say Bagley is noteworthy enough simply as a former professional, then again, we are setting a precedent: any player who has ever competed on the World Snooker Tour, regardless of their achievements or for how long they played, would be notable.
We would then be writing articles on several hundred people who never even made it past the pre-qualifying rounds (let alone the qualifying rounds) of any tournament they ever played in - people just like Jonathan Bagley.
I'm sure we can all see how ridiculous that would be. Simply participating in professional events, then, is hardly sufficient to make one notable.

Jonathan Bagley is one of hundreds of former professional snooker players; my argument is that two good performances in two amateur events two years ago, whatever coverage they received in the microcosm-world of avid snooker fans like ourselves, do not justify an article about him on Misplaced Pages. Montgomery15 (talk) 22:24, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Delete I do not think we should just allow coverage only in sport specific sites to propel us to create an article. There is no broad coverage, and no significant coverage outside of sport-psecific websites, and no reason to overturn the last deletion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:43, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Leaning delete but I'd like to see some more input.
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Comments The arguments of the Nom are compelling as are those of JPL. A deleted and recreated article should provide evidence for inclusion above the reasoning it was deleted in the first place, that would certainly include significant coverage in independent sources. I am not a "snooker fan" or expert and the discussion above seems to involve two that are more knowledgeable on the subject. The Nom's comments seem to indicate that the criteria of the WIkiProject indicate the subject does not reach the inclusion criteria. The rebuttal indicates less reliance on a WikiProjects criteria. Looking at List of snooker players, that states "This is a list of notable amateur and professional snooker players, past and present.", of which many are contestable, there does appear to be a more common theme that many on the list have placed high in rankings or won national or international tournaments. Since almost all sources are industry specific there has to be some allowances but I am not convinced that a need to list all snooker players (amateur or professional) should extend to "Last 144". -- Otr500 (talk) 15:59, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

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Relisting comment: Final relist.
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Delete All of the coverage of him appears to be what I would consider routine sports reporting. He was never world ranked and his best performance in open competition was making the final 262 at the Welsh Open in 1992. He did qualify for the 2019 world championships, where he lost his first match, by being the highest ranked amateur on the senior tour, but that doesn't seem sufficient to grant automatic WP notability. Papaursa (talk) 13:44, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was no consensus. Ritchie333 10:06, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Steve Steadham

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The subject of this article is not notable. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contributions) 15:59, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

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Delete aside from , all the sources I can find are either non-significant coverage, interviews, or user generated/shop listings. Danski454 (talk) 19:26, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
- My !vote is unchanged by the added sources, as aside from the Issuu and www.familymediasite.com, none are significant coverege. The Issuu source is primary and www.familymediasite.com doesn't inspire confidence in its reliability. Danski454 (talk) 22:50, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

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KEEP I respectfully disagree. Steve Steadham is a skateboarding pioneer and legend. As a member of the Bones Birgade, Steadham was part of the most well known skate team in skateboarding history. Additionally, he has gone on to found multiple companies and have a career a as professional musician. I added additional sources.--Wil540 art (talk) 21:16, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
Weak keep Based on WP:BASIC a lot of small refs show he was once notable, and you don't lose notability.Davidstewartharvey (talk) 18:20, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

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Delete. Sources are either unreliable, primary or passing mentions without going into significant coverage. Fails GNG and NBIO. Java Hurricane 06:42, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I respectfully disagree, to quote Davidstewartharvey: "Based on WP:BASIC a lot of small refs show he was once notable, and you don't lose notability." --Wil540 art (talk) 22:52, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

You only vote once, Wil540 art. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 17:01, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was no consensus. Some coverage is noted, but no clear consensus one way or the other whether this meets GNG. Fenix down (talk) 07:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Iñaki Peña

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Contested PROD. Subject fails both WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTY, never played in a WP:FPL. MYS 77 03:46, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

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Keep played 38 games in the Spanish Second Division. SportingFlyer T·C 04:29, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

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Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL; his appearances for Barcelona B were in the third-tier Segunda División B as confirmed by this. @SportingFlyer: you might wish to reconsider. Giant Snowman 15:22, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Ahhh right, they were relegated. Still potentially satisfies WP:GNG as there have been at least four feature articles written on him, but they're Euro-style and short such as . Very weak keep or draftify, but at worst WP:TOOSOON. SportingFlyer T·C 05:33, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Delete — Fails WP:GNG. Celestina007 (talk) 14:06, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Delete does not meet the general notability guidelines.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:28, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Comment he actually does meet WP:GNG, and he's been promoted to become Barcelona's second choice goalkeeper, which is very notable , even if he doesn't technically pass WP:NFOOTY yet. Stuff like: . At worst this is WP:TOOSOON for a few days. SportingFlyer T·C 00:31, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Keep meets GNG with references provided above. Sometimes I wonder if we should have different guidelines for backup keepers ... he has some 20+ games on the bench as the backup keeper for one of the best teams on the planet. And yet doesn't meet NFOOTBALL. On the other hand, such players will always meet GNG, with a little searching. Nfitz (talk) 21:18, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

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Weak keep - seems about enough to pass GNG Spiderone 07:50, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete He doesn't meet NFOOTBALL and most or all of the articles are just about how he played backup for other injured players. There doesn't seem to be anything notable about his career though, like tournaments won or any notable stats about him. The justification that the article should be kept because there must be sources about him is rather weak also. I'm pretty sure people looked for proper sources. It's not like the article can't be recreated once he's actually notable for something if he ever is. --Adamant1 (talk) 14:38, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

He's been the backup goalkeeper for the biggest team in the world for the last seven games, ever since COVID took. I did look for, and found, proper sources, which makes sense considering he's one of I think 18 people listed on the teamsheet week in week out for one of the top five most important football teams anywhere. SportingFlyer T·C 16:31, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Keep per SportingFlyer. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 13:39, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Keep Currently second-choice keeper for one of the best teams on the planet (F.C. Barcelona). Also passes WP:GNG. It seems a bit ridiculous to me that playing 5 minutes for a League 2 team in the Johnstone's Paint Trophy infront of 500 people 10 years ago gets you a WP:NFOOTY pass, but sitting on the bench for 7 games at F.C. Barcelona doesn't. AlessandroTiandelli333 (talk) 18:40, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

@AlessandroTiandelli333: Arnau Tenas was on the bench yesterday, not Peña, aside from Neto (footballer, born 1989). So who's the "third-choice"? As @Adamant1 said, he doesn't pass NFOOTBALL, most of the articles talking about him are stating that he will be on the bench or something like that. If we allow pages that pass NFOOTBALL per the amount of coverage (which is gigantic in the case of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester United and so on), then all players of the B-team will pass NFOOTBALL as well. MYS 77 00:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

To be honest I'm fine with that. All but 4 of the players on the B Team roster have articles anyway. Players playing for Barcelona B would definetely be full time as well so should really pass WP:NFOOTBALL. If someone can get an article for a substitute appearance in a minor competition for a League Two team then Barcelona's temporary second choice keeper should get an article too. They are much more notable in my eyes. AlessandroTiandelli333 (talk) 00:26, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Delete, as I edited the article to cover the good sources on him, not these unimportant "matchday list" references which add nothing to the article substancially, in my opinion. As you all can see, there's not much aside from those normal matchday lists to make him pass WP:GNG. He's mainly a promising goalkeeper whose status is currently growing due to the rumours of his promotion to the first team squad next season. For now, I still think it's WP:TOOSOON. MYS 77 03:20, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 14:28, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Christian Duffy

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this article has no sourcing. i tried to search some sources myself unsuccessfully. AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 15:14, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

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Delete not enough sources to pass GNG.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:12, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

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Delete -- I was not able to find any reliable sources on this person. Fails WP:GNG. Ealuscerwen (talk) 01:05, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
Keep -- The problem with sourcing might be a result of Duffy's name: he's mostly known as Bull Stanton - it's his gay porn pseudonym - even among bodybuilding fans. There are many sources that could be used in the article and that could prove his article should not be removed. I will improve the article over the next few days, so please don't delete it. AngelOfDestiny (talk) 19:23, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Giving more time so the changes and sources being added by AOD can be assessed more thoroughly here.
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@AngelOfDestiny: if you have good sources to prove notability I would withdraw the nomination. thank you for your contribute. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 22:36, 1 July 2020 (UTC) hi @AngelOfDestiny:, the sources added so far do not prove any notability. do you have more sources?. thank you. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 08:46, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

What do you mean, they not prove any notability? It's clearly stated that he was: 1) a first widely acclaimed bodybuilder to appear in gay pornography, which is remarkable; 2) the US professional bodybuilding champion - not state-level, nationwide. Also: a widely celebrated fitness cover model, and a well-know 90s porn star. If he was only one of those things, yes, it might not be enough but all things considered he's clearly eligible for a Misplaced Pages article. Beverly Hills Housewives have their own articles - Christian Duffy is okay, too. AngelOfDestiny (talk) 11:07, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@AngelOfDestiny: according to WP:GNG, WP:BASIC, WP:ENT and WP:SPORTSPERSON we need secondary sources to state what you say. so far we only have a few primary sources. the idea behind it is that to prove that an achievement is truly relevant we need a secondary source to talk about it. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 10:39, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@AlejandroLeloirRey: Look, if you want me to find analyses or academic writings on a '90s bodybuilding champion, there's not much I can do. Bodybuilding already is a niche sport. The sources I found about Christian Duffy are pretty much all there is on the internet. It clearly gives all the information anyone interested in him should gather, and if that's not enough, I literally can't provide more. AngelOfDestiny (talk) 14:11, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@AngelOfDestiny: you said that he was on the cover of a few important magazines, I would than be surprised if none of them has ever written a bio. we don't need much but just a couple of good sources. this is not to satisfy me but to satisfy the guidelines for notability. as I said if you and your achievement are notable someone must have written something about it. this is an enciclopedia after all and if we want wikipedia to be taken seriously and be considered reliable we can not rely on anything but good sources, otherwise the whole project will be considered a joke. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 13:09, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@AlejandroLeloirRey: He was on the cover of the most important bodybuilding magazines but that was before the internet era. Today that would equal with a series of articles on websites of Flex, IronMan or Muscular Development. But it was before mid-90s so everything remains in those printed magazine - which I do not own. Obviously, I can't win this one; I can't provide any sources you want from me. I still think those given are legit. There are tons of bodybuilding-related biographies on Misplaced Pages and a lot of them are from the "golden age" of bodybuilding ('70s, '80s, '90s). Most of them have the same type of sourcing like this page and there's no drama involved. AngelOfDestiny (talk) 16:47, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@AngelOfDestiny: do you believe we can have the exact number or date those magazines were issued? if so we might write to the magazine and try to get a copy of the article. that would take time but i would withdraw the nomination and see if we can prove notability through them... would you be willing to do that? --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 16:09, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@AlejandroLeloirRey: I can tell you're judging Duffy on a base of his porn star achievements. He did not win any porn industry awards but is notable as a bodybuilder-turned-gay porn actor, and as an athlete he achieved enough to have his own Misplaced Pages article. US-level champion on behalf of the NPC federation is a big deal and a definitely a notable success. AngelOfDestiny (talk) 11:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@AngelOfDestiny: first of all I am not judging a person but an article and mostly I am wandering if its notability has been proven by the sources. what I need is a in depth coverage of the subject in a secondary source. So far you only gave us sources where the subject is mentioned. this is not enough to prove notability. check WP:SPORTSPERSON --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 09:19, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Keep -- Obiously an accomplished bodybuilding figure, successful enough to being a cover model for the most important bodybuilding magazines in the United States. Famous for his gay pornography work even among bodybuilding aficionados, and probably the very first athlete of such masculine sports to openly admit both his porn history and sexual orientation (homo- or bisexual). Should be kept definitely. Adriano16 (talk) 11:21, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

@Adriano16: basing on your personal perception of this subject or on sources? I am tired of people taking AFD as a voting process, we should present facts based on sources not what we think about the subject. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 09:24, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

comment In order to help those who are adding sources to save the article I will give you my opinion about the sources that have been found so far. 1) this is an interview and generally interviews are not considered to prove notability as they are primary sources. nevertheless, this one is a good interview so I believe that it has some weight but it is not enough. 2),3),4),6),7) totally primary sources, they only proves he wan some competitions, this type of sources have almost no weight at all into proving notability. 5) this is only something that someone has posted. 8) this is a very short bio (about 4-5 lines) stuffed with pictures. this has no weight into proving notability. 9) another interview, see 1. 10),11) mere mentions, they do not says nothing about the subject. 12) it's 2 pics of the subject. 13) IMDb is not reliable, this source should not even be used. 13) another interview and it reads "advertisement". now, if you want to keep this article, in my opinion, you should either add more sources or tell why my judgment on these sources is wrong and point out exactly which sources you believe prove notability. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 13:29, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
comment So far no one showed a reliable source and the arguments for keep are based on the fact that they are sure that somewhere more sources exists. are this type of argument considered here? --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 11:18, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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comment @Gene93k: i think there is a problem with the relisting. it doesn't appear in the correct date. can you check if everything is ok? thank you.--AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 09:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

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Delete No proper references available. killer bee  11:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by K6bee9 (talk • contribs)
Keep -- Per WP:ENT and WP:SPORTCRIT Accomplished bodybuilding figure: cover model for the most important bodybuilding magazines in the United States. Search term of Bull Stanton reveals even more SIGCOV Lightburst (talk) 19:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

@Lightburst: cool, basin on which sources please? --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 20:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Delete None of the sources are sufficient for notability. Neither is the fact that he was on a cover of "the most important" bodybuilding magazines in the United States. Since pictures are not in-depth coverage. Which is required for notability. Plus, notability isn't inherited anyway. So being on the cover of anything, no matter how "important" it is, doesn't automatically qualify someone for an article. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:36, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
comment this article was relisted because AngelOfDestiny said he could find some reliable sources but he needed some extratime. well, no reliable extensive covers of the subject have been shown so far and all the keep votes are based on the fact that "there might be more sources"... might... may be I can fly...--AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 10:16, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

If you don't mind a little good faith "criticism", I'm sure everyone can figure that out the crux of this by reading through the discussion. So, there isn't a need to comment after every other vote. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:06, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I am sorry, you are right. it is just that I saw it happening a few times. someone pop out and says wait, give me time, I have some good sources and than he adds a few (or many) bad sources. but, yes you are right. sorry. (i am AlejandroLeloirRey) --79.35.212.95 (talk) 08:15, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Keep. He gets chronicled in Jack Fritscher Gay San Francisco: Eyewitness Drummer, and is listed in Superstars: Gay Adult Video Guide. So even on his gay porn career, he is probably notable. See no reason to delete this. Britishfinance (talk) 12:04, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment. He also gets three pages in Michael Alago's autobiography, which I have used to expand the article. Britishfinance (talk) 13:35, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your contribution. I never knew sources like that existed in the first place and they really benefit the article. AngelOfDestiny (talk) 16:18, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

The result was delete. No prejudice against re-creation with appropriate additional sources. I'm happy to undelete into draft space for anyone who wants to provide and cite those sources. –Darkwind (talk) 00:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Kimberley Clague

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Fails WP:NBADMINTON. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:11, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 15:25, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. North America 02:53, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:40, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Keep secondary sources writing about her. 2 examples: 1, 2 SportsOlympic (talk) 19:16, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Those are all trivial mentions of the subject and do not meet GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:35, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Ahh, sorry added them to quickly. But you would have find sources if you would have done WP:BEFORE. Sources without trivial mentions: her for example with a full paragraph about her. Not only her results but also about her work. See also a video of a short Manx Radio article and interview here. Here an article she was leading during the opening ceremony. I can add more, but this it enough meeting GNG. SportsOlympic (talk) 20:13, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Delete a few trivial mentions do not notability make.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:33, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:12, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Keep Three times participant of the Commonwealth Games CGF profile, 2018. Independent sources and mentions are available, too (see above) as well as: "HISTORY MAKER!! Badminton player Kim Clague wins a fourth successive doubles title at the Island Games." Google: 400 hits for "Kim Clague" badminton, 500 hits for "Kimberley Clague" badminton Florentyna (talk) 19:41, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Again all of that fails WP:NBADMINTON and all sources provided do not meet GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 22:19, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Again, I showed examples of articles meeting GNG like this one, this one and this one. More of those examples available. SportsOlympic (talk) 06:43, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Comment, does a participant in multiple Commonwealth Games meet WP:SPORTBASIC ie. "if they have, for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level", although the Olympics is given as an example, the CG are also major. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:31, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't think so. The Commonwealth Games has no qualification criteria. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 14:34, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I lived in GB during the 2014 Games and it had massive media attention every day. You think it because you say the CG doesn't have qualification critera, but there are, see for instance Weightlifting at the 2018 Commonwealth Games – Qualification. SportsOlympic (talk) 16:57, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I have a few comments on some of the above statements. The Commonwealth Games are not considered the highest level of any sport, so just appearing there grants no WP notability. In previous AfD discussions, depending upon the sport, some have argued that winning a medal at the CG shows notability but that is not a factor in this case. Most Commonwealth sports do not require qualifying although weightlifting did for the first time in 2018. TV coverage doesn't provide notability (WP:NOTNEWS) or tens of thousands of college football players would earn notability every year. Papaursa (talk) 20:32, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Delete Fails to meet WP:NBAD. Currently unranked and highest world rankings ever were 1039 in singles and 928 in women's doubles with the BWF website showing zero match victories in any of their competitions. Success at the Island Games doesn't provide WP notability and the coverage can be considered routine sports reporting. Papaursa (talk) 20:32, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Notability is not about achievements, but about coverage. SportsOlympic (talk) 21:05, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Agreed, but the two are not unrelated. That's why the SNGs exist. I think the coverage is routine sports reporting, passing mentions, and WP:NOTNEWS so that WP:GNG is not met. Papaursa (talk) 23:10, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jack Frost (talk) 05:27, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Weak keep per WP:SPORTBASIC. Stvbastian (talk) 23:53, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:SPORTBASIC talks about competing at the highest level. The Commonwealth Games are not that level and there's been no case made that every competitor at those Games is automatically notable. Her coverage is typical of any athlete at the CG and the Island Games are too minor an event for success to show notability, especially with coverage being dominated by routine sports reporting. Since she clearly fails WP:NBAD, can you show she meets WP:GNG by linking the significant independent coverage of her that is above the reporting expected of any athlete at the CG? Papaursa (talk) 22:58, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Keep as per User:SportsOlympic. Florentyna (talk) 06:53, 5 July 2020 (UTC) — Duplicate vote: Florentyna (talk • contribs) has already cast a vote above. –Darkwind (talk) 23:59, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

None of those sources meet GNG as pointed above, and the article fails WP:NBADMINTON. Clear deletion. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:28, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

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