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This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject College football and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

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• WT:CFB

College football Project‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject College football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of college football on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.College footballWikipedia:WikiProject College footballTemplate:WikiProject College footballcollege football Project This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

One-sentence, sub-stub season articles -- let's fix them

In the past, we have been tolerant of the creation of sub-stub articles that usually consist of only a single sentence of prose. These sorts of sub-stubs attract unfavorable attention from those who do not understand or appreciate the notability of college football history. The time has come IMO to impose higher standards. At a minimum, season articles should include a schedule table and prose describing the basics of the team's season, including such things as (i) win-loss record and points for/against, (ii) conference affiliation (and position of finish within the conference), (iii) identity of head coach (and year of service), (iv) identity of the team captain (where available), and (v) players receiving All-American or all-conference honors (where available). Thoughts and suggestions are welcome. For those willing to help clean up the existing sub-stubs, a working list can be found at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject College football/Season articles campaign#One-sentence sub-stubs. Cbl62 (talk) 18:19, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• I think this an excellent proposal. I do want to call out the "unfavorable attention" though - if these are at AfC, many reviewers, even sports fans, won't be able to make a notability determination on a college football season if they're nothing more than a lede, a results table, and a link to the school's athletics history guide, and WP:NSEASONS currently provides terrible guidance specifically for college football seasons. Thoughts:

1. Is there a template for college football seasons anywhere, with all of these improvements listed?
2. Rework WP:NSEASONS with a specific RfC to make it easier for users who aren't familiar with the subject
3. Specifically encourage decade-specific articles like William & Mary Tribe football, 1970–79 for less notable programs (to be fair, that's personal preference, but I think that article does the job really well) SportingFlyer T·C 19:40, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

I did not mean the phrase "unfavorable attention" to be a negative comment about those whom might nominate for deletion. I completely agree that someone unfamiliar with the sport would look at an article like 1920 Earlham Quakers football team or 2014 Lindenwood Lions football team and have no idea why they are notable. Frankly, I'm not even sure about those two and some of the others. As for revising WP:NSEASONS, I agree that it's needed but it's so hard to get something passed at WP:NSPORT that I'm reluctant to try it. I am not aware of a template that sets forth expected content for season articles, but would be willing to contribute to one if someone wanted to get that ball rolling. Cbl62 (talk) 20:34, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

@MisterCake: I'm pinging Cake to the discussion as most of the articles under discussion are his creations. Cbl62 (talk) 20:37, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

No worries. I've started discussion for an WP:NSEASONS RfC below as to not hijack this. I know it's difficult to gain consensus but you can't if you don't try! At what point should we be nominating stubs for deletion if we can't rescue them do you think? SportingFlyer T·C 21:02, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

I really don't like the decade articles. Think those getting replaced by single season articles only a good thing. Consider, for one, if in one of the years in the decade they did something worthy of a navbox, or anything else specific to one of the years rather than the whole decade. Many of those with old seasons like Earlham are because the program is notable but it needs some season or other with coverage. Cake (talk) 22:02, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

@MisterCake: Most of the candidates at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject College football/Season articles campaign#One-sentence sub-stubs are your creations. If you have time to work at improving them, that would go some distance in demonstrating notability and fending off any deletion efforts. Cbl62 (talk) 01:18, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm with Cake on the decade articles. Several years ago, we had many of decade articles for major programs and decided here to break them up into individual year articles. Most of the decade articles are gone, but a few still persist: e.g. Category:Louisiana Tech Bulldogs football seasons. The decade articles tend be list-ish mega-stubs that if properly developed would get unwieldy. Better to have ten neat stubs that can each be developed into nice season articles.

I've been working on cleaning up the infoboxes, schedule tables, and category sorting for season articles. I've made my way through the Ivies aside from Columbia and Brown and through Michigan up to 1935. As we create new season articles or update existing ones, it would helpful if we could all model the formatting in those examples. Patriotsontop, PCN02WPS, Murphanian777, Dmoore5556, and Usaf 1832 have been active of late creating new season articles, so I figure I'll loop them all in here. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:32, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I share the same view as Cake and Jweiss on the decade articles. As Jweiss correctly notes, they tend to be mega-stubs with multiple schedule charts and infoboxes. E.g., Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens football, 1889–99. In particular, they do not lend themselves to the development of prose. As prose content is what we should be aspiring to in the development of the encyclopedia, season articles (which lend themselves more readily to prose development) should be encouraged. Cbl62 (talk) 21:36, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Cbl62: The proposal is well-intentioned, but contrary to WP:DELETIONISNOTCLEANUP. I'd propose an article must have multiple sources of significant, independent coverage identified by inline citations. If not, do not prmote the draft. For mainspace, they are fair game for AfD. In the extreme, long-term abusers should be WP:TBANed on creations of these types.—Bagumba (talk) 04:25, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

1947 Bowling Green Falcons football team is IMO a good example of a well-sourced season article stub. That said, we've typically allowed creation of season stubs sourced to a single, reliable source like SR/College Football or College Football Data Warehouse, and I'm not aware of any policy that would mandate more than that at the time of creation. Are you aware of any? I highlighted the one-sentence sub-stubs because they represent the lowest level of stub -- and something that I suspect most everyone believes we should discourage. Cbl62 (talk) 05:20, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps you are suggesting a WikiProject level "best practice", which we'd encourage regular editors to follow. This is distinguished from a one-off page creation by a non-regular of the project.—Bagumba (talk) 05:47, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Precisely. Cbl62 (talk) 05:49, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Cbl62: What about this Misplaced Pages:WikiProject College football/Yearly team pages format should that work or is that in need of an update.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 12:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

COVID deaths among football community

I'm interested in working on bios of American football players and coaches who have died due to COVID. List of deaths due to COVID-19 includes Tom Dempsey, Dick Lucas (American football), Roy Lester, and Orlando McDaniel. Anyone know of any others? Anyone want to collaborate on improving any of these? Cbl62 (talk) 23:51, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Marv Luster is another one, too. Ejgreen77 (talk) 23:45, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Cleanup of "List of XYZ Wildcats in the NFL Draft|draft" article naming convention

If anyone is interested in a tedious project, the 237 articles in Category:Lists of National Football League draftees by college football team are inconsistently titled, using both "... NFL Draft" and "... NFL draft". UW Dawgs (talk) 23:02, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Which is correct? Is it a proper noun? Should "draft" be capitalized or not? Cbl62 (talk) 23:22, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Consensus at User talk:KingSkyLord#Draft case seems to favor lower case. Cbl62 (talk) 23:52, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) For what it's worth, in articles such as NFL Draft and 2020 NFL Draft, the word is capitalized when referring to the "NFL Draft" or the "YEAR NFL Draft" but lowercase when referring to "draft" by itself. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 00:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

MOS:SPORTCAPS

Specific titles and events (or series thereof) are capitalized: WPA World Nine-ball Championship, Tour de France, Americas Cup. Generic usage is not: a three-time world champion, international tournaments. None take italics or other special markup.

--I am under the impression that this would indicate NFL Draft should be capitalized compared to saying something like a college had a player selected for x drafts in a row.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 03:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

MOS:CAPS: Misplaced Pages avoids unnecessary capitalization. I'm more of the thinking to only capitalize when the meaning differs from the plain English words e.g. "Super Bowl" vs "super bowl", but the meaning of "NFL playoffs" and "NFL draft" in plain English are the same without needing to capitalize. This is the style of The New York Times. Companies capitalize to promote branding, i.e. inflates an aura of importance.—Bagumba (talk) 08:25, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

I tend to agree with Bagumba on the general point. Cbl62 (talk) 00:08, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

I would say there is a huge difference between the case of the words "playoffs" and "draft" in the NFL as playoff is referred to as a common noun, but "draft" is usually referred to as a proper noun (but only when referring to the main event specifically and not supplemental drafts), hence why it has been capitalized on all of the main lists and most of the college draftees lists. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 19:55, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• Support "NFL Draft"—I'm with KingSkyLord. "NFL Draft" is a proper noun. When the phrase appears unmodified, it should be capitalized. However, when the phrase "NFL draftees" is used, a lower-case D is appropriate. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:46, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

CfD: Category:St. Edward's Hilltoppers football

I have nominated Category:St. Edward's Hilltoppers football and its subcategories for renaming. Please see the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 June 11#Category:St. Edward's Hilltoppers football. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 18:18, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

AfD discussion

There is a discussion in which you might be interested at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Houston–Texas football rivalry (3rd nomination). UW Dawgs (talk)

AfD Marshall Klevenow

There is an AfD discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Marshall Klevenow some editors may want to participate.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 18:15, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

YYYY in American football articles

I recently stumbled upon the "YYYY in American football" genre of articles, with the current one being 2020 in American football. I know that these are not CFB-specific, but college football takes up most of the articles. IMO, these articles look pretty sad - they're essentially just lists of bowl games, littered with flagicons, with sprinklings of NFL and other international pro leagues at the bottom. I'd like to revamp these articles, but I didn't want to make super major changes without informing the community. Here are some broad changes I'm planning on making.

• The bowl games for the previous year are listed; for example, the 2019–20 bowl games are listed on the 2020 article; I want to move those to the year for the season that they followed (e.g. put 2019–20 bowl games on 2019 page).
• Add information about things that happened during 2019 regular season
• Add information about the NFL season, and other domestic and international professional leagues

What do you all think? PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 15:34, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Two quick thoughts: (1) these appear at first glance to be duplicative of existing college football season articles, and (2) the flag icons in the middle of narrative text are a bad idea. Cbl62 (talk) 15:52, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@Cbl62: Point 1 is what makes me want to add more on other leagues (both domestic and international) so that the articles are not just about college football, which I plan to do, and I fully agree with point 2. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 15:59, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Please kill those flag icons with fire! Jweiss11 (talk) 04:20, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

@Cbl62 and Jweiss11: I have created 2013 in American football - at present it contains only the section regarding the 2013 NCAA Div I FBS season, but I will be adding similar sections for all other NCAA divisions as well as the NFL season and most other leagues located at Category:2013 in American football. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:21, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

SUNY football redirect discussion

There is a redirect discussion at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 26#SUNY football that editors may be interested in participating.–UCO2009bluejay (talk) 09:43, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Proposal to amend WP:NCOLLATH

Please weigh in on this discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Notability (sports)#Proposal to amend WP:NCOLLATH to include coach guidance. Thank you. Rikster2 (talk) 22:57, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Can folks please weigh in here? Seems like a slam dunk to add at least SOME college coaches to the guideline. Rikster2 (talk) 23:13, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Barton College football reinstatement Cfd

I am posting this notice here because the program previously played under the name Atlantic Christian. The program will be reinstated this year. I have requested a move for Template:Atlantic Christian Bulldogs football coach navbox and its related categories at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 June 29#Category:Atlantic Christian Bulldogs football.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 07:37, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Lists of head football coaches improvement drive proposal

I was just browsing through the project's featured lists and it appears to me that with the amount of progress by the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject College football/Season articles campaign, I think that creating well established and well cited lists of football head coaches could be a cinch. Especially considering there are established models to work with. I don't see much reason why we couldn't create/improve/maintain/upgrade these lists of coaches to Featured List status for the Power Five (if not all of FBS) schools.

• As of today the only ones with that status are: Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Baylor, Clemson, Colorado, East Carolina, Georgia, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, LSU, Missouri, Navy, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Tennessee, Texas, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, and Washington & Jefferson. This makes for a grand total of 22, (or 19 of the 64 power five conference schools.) Would anybody be interested in working on an improvement drive?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 12:22, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

PROD FYI

Jeff Tisdel. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:44, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Eagles247, thanks for the heads up. I reverted the prod and made some improvements. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:27, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

College players in the NFL draft talk page inclusion/declusion discussion

There is a discussion regarding Lists of XYZ College players in the NFL draft at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject National Football League#"in the NFL Draft" articles that editors may be interested in discussing.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 14:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

AfD: Alan Gooch

There is an open AfD for a former NCAA D-I FBS head coach that is currently open that members of this project may be interested in, please see here. Thanks, Ejgreen77 (talk) 22:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

This discussion could used some more input. Please see Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Alan Gooch. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:17, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Removal of non-conference schedules from conference-only schedules for 2020

I'm noticing that some editors are just wholesale removing the cancelled non-conference games from teams in the Big Ten and Pac 12 2020 team articles (as in 2020 Wisconsin Badgers football team#Schedule), which I don't feel is a proper solution; writing about it as text is clumsy, and retaining those games in the schedule grids with strikethrough or red highlighting noting the games were cancelled seems more appropriate. Some consensus needs to be built, because it's likely more game cancellations and/or conference-only schedules are to come (I decided not to return those games to that article so that we can figure out consensus). Nate • (chatter) 02:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

• It's an interesting question. Red highlighting usually denotes a loss. I don't know if this is consistent, but Florida's various hurricane cancellations (see for example 2017 Florida Gators football team) are handled as prose. Conversely, the 2018 First Responder Bowl is listed with strikethroughs on 2018 Boston College Eagles football team and 2018 Boise State Broncos football team. The existing schedules are likely to disintegrate completely, assuming a season is even played at all, and keeping the cancelled games in the table might become unwieldy. Mackensen (talk) 02:17, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I think I meant to say dark grey to handle cancelled games, but you're right, it's probably going to have to be case-to-case by conference or program until we understand if the season is going on in a reduced form, gets bumped to spring, or just doesn't happen. It's certainly something we've never really faced, and I'm sure this project has been dreading this week since the spring scrimmage season was cancelled. Nate • (chatter) 02:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
    • Consider the example of 1918 Michigan Wolverines football team; games were cancelled because of World War I and because of the flu pandemic. The schedule shows the games that were actually played, while the preseason section discusses, in prose, the effect those two events had on the schedule. That's not a bad model, especially in cases where a new game is scheduled into a slot previously occupied by a cancelled game. It also leaves our options open if conferences adopt some form of flex scheduling. Mackensen (talk) 02:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
      • Jpp858 and I talked about this on his talk page; I was originally using strikethroughs with a footnote and Jpp858 replaced these with the prose above the schedule. For the sake of cooperation and being on the same page, I switched over to his method. I would appreciate a project-wide consensus on this, though, so we can take care of this and all be on the same page. I'm fine with either method, though if we go for the strikethrough method the Big Ten and Ivy pages, as well as those of their opponents, will have to be reverted back to match. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

I've seen it dealt with in other instances (JFK assassination and others) with "Cancelled" written in the "Result" column. Cbl62 (talk) 04:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

I had to deal with this for 1969 Holy Cross Crusaders football team, where most of the season was canceled because of a hepatitis outbreak, and that was my solution -- to write "Canceled" instead of the result. For a completed season, this displays nicely, because the fact that those weeks are "still" shown in gray marks them as separate from the green W, red L and yellow T.

For an upcoming season, though, the canceled games would blend in with the "other" scheduled games, at first glance. The strikethrough might be a better solution. But there's one more wrinkle ... with so many schedules in flux, there's a chance that canceled games with nonconference opponents could be replaced with different opponents on the same date. Then the schedules could get massively confusing. _``` t b w i l l i e _{`</sub> $1.25 <sub>`} 16:58, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

• One possibility is showing those games a la North Dakota State in the 2001 Maine Black Bears football team article. SportsGuy789 (talk) 04:31, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

AfD: 1921 DePauw Tigers football team

1921 DePauw Tigers football team has been nominated for deletion. Please see the discussion at at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/1921 DePauw Tigers football team. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 22:02, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

• Withdrawn by nominator. Cbl62 (talk) 02:05, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Ohio State–Purdue football rivalry

A new user showed up this week and immediately created three new rivalry articles: Ohio State–Purdue football rivalry, Auburn–UAB football rivalry, Middle Tennessee–Vanderbilt football rivalry. Are these real rivalries? Should they be submitted to AfD? Is the new user the latest sock of User:Caleb Hughes? Cbl62 (talk) 05:31, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages pages with to-do lists
• Project-Class college football pages
• NA-importance college football pages