Talk:Tammy Duckworth: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 16:07, 11 August 2020 editAlanscottwalker (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers74,847 edits →top: ce← Previous edit		Revision as of 20:26, 11 August 2020 edit undoRogerd (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators42,510 edits →Natural born US Citizen: of course notNext edit →
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	:::::What reliable sources? You cite one article by National Review, which is ok, but that it hardly overwhelming evidence that many people are questioning her qualifications. Again, she isn't the first person to potentially be in the running for the top 2 jobs to have been born overseas. --] (]) 14:46, 11 August 2020 (UTC)		:::::What reliable sources? You cite one article by National Review, which is ok, but that it hardly overwhelming evidence that many people are questioning her qualifications. Again, she isn't the first person to potentially be in the running for the top 2 jobs to have been born overseas. --] (]) 14:46, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
	::::::{{u\|Rogerd}}, I think you missed my point. If the reliable sources aren't questioning Duckworth's eligibility, then we shouldn't say anything about it. – ] (]) 15:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)		::::::{{u\|Rogerd}}, I think you missed my point. If the reliable sources aren't questioning Duckworth's eligibility, then we shouldn't say anything about it. – ] (]) 15:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
			{{od}}Of course not. Then why do we have to make a statement saying she is eligible when it is obvious? AGAIN, she isn't the first person to be born outside the US by a US citizen parent who is considered for a top 2 job. --] (]) 20:25, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

	::::{{ping\|User:Rogerd}} Obama's critics falsely claim he's not a natural born citizen because he was born in a foreign country (Kenya) to an American mother. But they do not raise the same issue against Cruz, who was born in a foreign country (Canada) to an American mother. If they argued consistently, Obama being disqualified for a supposedly foreign birth to an American mother would also DQ Cruz, who was born in a foreign country to an American mother. That's my point - inconsistent argumentation.		::::{{ping\|User:Rogerd}} Obama's critics falsely claim he's not a natural born citizen because he was born in a foreign country (Kenya) to an American mother. But they do not raise the same issue against Cruz, who was born in a foreign country (Canada) to an American mother. If they argued consistently, Obama being disqualified for a supposedly foreign birth to an American mother would also DQ Cruz, who was born in a foreign country to an American mother. That's my point - inconsistent argumentation.

Revision as of 20:26, 11 August 2020

Tammy Duckworth was nominated as a Social sciences and society good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (January 13, 2013). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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BLP policy on minors

Maine has the notability but does it really make sense to remove Abigail’s identity from the prose?--Fradio71 (talk) 04:52, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Name

Article seems to lack subjects actual name...Ladda Duckworth. (sources:all of them. google it.) 86.142.118.91 (talk) 17:13, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. From a cursory Google search, it looks like her full name is Ladda Tammy Duckworth. If that's the case, that's what should be used in the lead sentence per MOS:BIRTHNAME. Surachit (talk) 22:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Done Rovingrobert (talk) 00:22, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Natural born US Citizen

There is no dispute that Sen. Duckworth, like many other Americans who have 1 or more American citizen parents when born abroad, is a US citizen. John McCain, Ted Cruz, and George W. Romney among others were all born abroad, but the natural-born-citizen clause of the US Constitution is not explained on the their pages. Many Americans, like a friend of mine who's father was a USAF officer were born on foreign military bases or embassies, or other just when the parents were overseas for some other reason. There is no reason to have the "Under long standing US law, she is a natural-born citizen because her father is American" sentence in the "Early life and education" section. --rogerd (talk) 22:09, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Concurring opinion with Rogerd: A senate non-binding resolution was passed in 2008 declaring John McCain a "natural-born citizen." Obama presented a birth certificate which officially (as per the State of Hawaii) as born in the USA. The authenticity of that document has been disputed but SCOTUS declined to get involved. Ted Cruz renounced his Canadian citizenship for fear it would become a problem.

There are two likely explanations for the "natural-born citizen" clause in the Constitution: 1) to prohibit "high-born" Royals from seizing the US Presidency or 2) to require the president, after ratification of the Constitution, to be a "native-born" American. If the former, Tammy Duckworth is elgible; if the latter, Tammy Duckworth is ineligible. Until a court hears the case against Tammy Duckworth, it is a matter of dispute and not suitable for encyclopedic content. If she doesn't actually end up on the ballot for Vice President or President of the United States, it's not relevant at all to her. I strongly suggest omitting any reference to the issue until it has some legal context attributed to it. Opinion of Congressional Research which makes no mention of the circumstances of Tammy Duckworth nor an article that tongue-in-cheek references the aforementioned opinion is adequate for encyclopedic reference. --FordGT90Concept (talk) 22:47, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

I disagree about #2. Cruz's, McCain's and George Romney's eligibility were never seriously questioned, despite the fact they were born in Canada, Panama Canal Zone, and Mexico, respectively. McCain was the nominee of a major party. --rogerd (talk) 23:23, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

@Rogerd:, @FordGT90Concept: I disagree with Rogerd because of the "Where's the birth certificate?" fake controversy of the Obama years. (Note they don't apply to Cruz the standard they applied to Obama.) The facts ought to be clearly stated before someone attempts to again resurrect this non-issue. But if there's a consensus otherwise, then the consensus should prevail.

Billmckern (talk) 22:53, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Huh? Obama was born in the US (although some disputed it), and Duckworth (and the others I cited) were not. BTW, even if Obama had been born outside of the US, (which he clearly wasn't), he would be a natural born citizen because of his mother's citizenship. However, the two situations are unrelated. My point is this is not a big deal and not worth even mentioning in the article, anymore than it is Cruz's, George Romney's, or McCain's. --rogerd (talk) 23:23, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

It is a significant enough issue to mention in this article if the reliable sources we use have deemed it a significant enough issue to mention. Otherwise, I agree we should leave it out. After all, if Biden doesn't pick her as veep, the whole convo is moot. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:07, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

What reliable sources? You cite one article by National Review, which is ok, but that it hardly overwhelming evidence that many people are questioning her qualifications. Again, she isn't the first person to potentially be in the running for the top 2 jobs to have been born overseas. --rogerd (talk) 14:46, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Rogerd, I think you missed my point. If the reliable sources aren't questioning Duckworth's eligibility, then we shouldn't say anything about it. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Of course not. Then why do we have to make a statement saying she is eligible when it is obvious? AGAIN, she isn't the first person to be born outside the US by a US citizen parent who is considered for a top 2 job. --rogerd (talk) 20:25, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@Rogerd: Obama's critics falsely claim he's not a natural born citizen because he was born in a foreign country (Kenya) to an American mother. But they do not raise the same issue against Cruz, who was born in a foreign country (Canada) to an American mother. If they argued consistently, Obama being disqualified for a supposedly foreign birth to an American mother would also DQ Cruz, who was born in a foreign country to an American mother. That's my point - inconsistent argumentation.

Billmckern (talk) 00:39, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I suggest removing the sentence about Senator Duckworth being a natural-born citizen from the body of the article and making it an explanatory footnote. (Also, long standing ought to be changed to long-standing or longstanding.) —⁠99.203.54.139 (talk) 04:23, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I could live with that. --rogerd (talk) 14:47, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Categories:

Revision as of 16:07, 11 August 2020 editAlanscottwalker (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers74,847 edits →top: ce← Previous edit		Revision as of 20:26, 11 August 2020 edit undoRogerd (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators42,510 edits →Natural born US Citizen: of course notNext edit →
Line 59:		Line 59:
	:::::What reliable sources? You cite one article by National Review, which is ok, but that it hardly overwhelming evidence that many people are questioning her qualifications. Again, she isn't the first person to potentially be in the running for the top 2 jobs to have been born overseas. --] (]) 14:46, 11 August 2020 (UTC)		:::::What reliable sources? You cite one article by National Review, which is ok, but that it hardly overwhelming evidence that many people are questioning her qualifications. Again, she isn't the first person to potentially be in the running for the top 2 jobs to have been born overseas. --] (]) 14:46, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
	::::::{{u\|Rogerd}}, I think you missed my point. If the reliable sources aren't questioning Duckworth's eligibility, then we shouldn't say anything about it. – ] (]) 15:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)		::::::{{u\|Rogerd}}, I think you missed my point. If the reliable sources aren't questioning Duckworth's eligibility, then we shouldn't say anything about it. – ] (]) 15:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
			{{od}}Of course not. Then why do we have to make a statement saying she is eligible when it is obvious? AGAIN, she isn't the first person to be born outside the US by a US citizen parent who is considered for a top 2 job. --] (]) 20:25, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

	::::{{ping\|User:Rogerd}} Obama's critics falsely claim he's not a natural born citizen because he was born in a foreign country (Kenya) to an American mother. But they do not raise the same issue against Cruz, who was born in a foreign country (Canada) to an American mother. If they argued consistently, Obama being disqualified for a supposedly foreign birth to an American mother would also DQ Cruz, who was born in a foreign country to an American mother. That's my point - inconsistent argumentation.		::::{{ping\|User:Rogerd}} Obama's critics falsely claim he's not a natural born citizen because he was born in a foreign country (Kenya) to an American mother. But they do not raise the same issue against Cruz, who was born in a foreign country (Canada) to an American mother. If they argued consistently, Obama being disqualified for a supposedly foreign birth to an American mother would also DQ Cruz, who was born in a foreign country to an American mother. That's my point - inconsistent argumentation.