Request for Mentorship--Taivo

See my response to your request on my Talk page. (Taivo (talk) 04:08, 26 December 2009 (UTC))

Request for mentorship

Thank you for your patience as I took the last couple of days to study and understand the situation. And thanks also for requesting my participation. However, I am still quite new to the Wiki system, and as such, must humbly decline your offer as I believe my beginner's ignorance may be a hinderance for you. Cortina2 (talk) 18:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Return ping

E-mail answered. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:57, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

This is exactly what I was talking about. If you wish to be better understood, you would have been better to just include the quote, and nothing else - all that introductory writing confuses people sometimes. Try and make your style simple and to the point, not flowery. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:37, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Your email

Thank you for thinking of me, but the amount of time I can spend on Misplaced Pages is limited, so I won't be able to contribute as you request. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 19:51, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I looked into your request, and I think that it's simply too far outside of my expertise for me to be helpful. I'm sorry. rspεεr (talk) 05:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I sent an e-mail detailing a plan which (a) clarifies the "expertise" issue and (b) incorporates flexible time commitments. --Tenmei (talk) 16:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I've got your email, but I haven't reviewed it yet. I will let you know what I think when I have. Daniel Case (talk) 20:14, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I sent an e-mail detailing a plan which incorporates flexible time commitments. --Tenmei (talk) 16:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Hey there. I did receive your email; while I appreciate the opportunity, I don't feel that I've got the time to devote to such an endeavour right now. Good luck with it, however. Tony Fox (arf!) 05:11, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I also received your email. Unfortunately my real life does not allow me to make the necessary time commitment for a meaningful mentorship agreement. (You should have asked two years ago...). This is doubly unfortunate as I would love to know more about the history of East Asia (I know a little about the Republic of China, not much else). —Кузьма 15:53, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to help out - I'm barely managing my school load, and my Misplaced Pages editing is suffering as a result. --Rschen7754 07:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Ditto Rschen774 above, I've been a little pre-occupied with RL and can't commit to as involved a project as mentoring at the moment. --Philosopher  10:37, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I've responded to your E-mail, too. Acalamari 17:57, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I sent an e-mail detailing a plan which incorporates flexible time commitments. --Tenmei (talk) 16:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Email spamming

→ see also: WP:Spam; Wikipedian canvassing -- sometimes referred to as internal "spamming", see WP:Canvassing

Please stop spamming emails to hundreds of users. It's not productive. Thank you. –Juliancolton |  19:36, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I have sent you an email explaining. --Tenmei (talk) 20:12, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

This was an outside the box search for potential mentors. See Nine-dot puzzle images above. --Tenmei (talk) 19:38, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

FYI

Hey there Tenmei, just want you to know I just sent you an email. I didn't see your subpage before now, you may have sent me the dif but I haven't checked the latest ones you sent me yet. Ignore my questions about who you picked, I just saw. Take all the time you need to respond to me, no hurry on my part. ;) --CrohnieGal 12:27, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure

But I'm still a little confused. I'll be on again in 7 hours, so you can explain to me. Cheers, Abce2 (talk) 13:29, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Mentorship request

I would be willing to consider your request, pending review of the situation that brought you to this point. --McDoobAU93 (talk) 15:58, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

How can I be of assistance? --McDoobAU93 (talk) 01:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I accept your request. Let me know what I can do to help out. --McDoobAU93 (talk) 17:19, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Sure!

Count me in; sounds like fun. Vandal-whacking can get really frsutrating, I'm out of ideas for new articles and I'd like a new challenge. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 00:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Not a problem.  :)--PMDrive1061 (talk) 01:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I got your e-mail, but I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. Do you wish help from a mentor? If so, I'd be most happy to help you. Just let me know on my talk page; I don't check that particular e-mail account very often at all. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 01:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Mentorship?

Some questions:

1. Did I wrote myself at the list at the project page?
2. What's that mentorship thing?
3. What do I have to do if I accept?

--RatónBat 15:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Mentorship request, II

Thanks for assuming I would be a suitable mentor. Unfortunately, I do not currently have the time available to do it properly. Thank you for asking. Regards, CliffC (talk) 03:01, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• I'll take a look, but I've decided to take a break from the project for a little while. I was just leaving word on my user page and talk page when you wrote. Not to worry; I'll get back to you soon. Best, --PMDrive1061 (talk) 04:17, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Hi, and thanks for your invitation to be one of your mentors. I'm not sure how helpful I could be though, as I'm not an admin and have no experience of mentoring anyone. You should probably have someone with more relevant experience. Have you tried asking on Misplaced Pages:Adopt-a-User or Misplaced Pages:WikiProject User Rehab? If you can't find anyone better, I'm willing to give it a try, but I think you'd have more success looking elsewhere. Good luck! Robofish (talk) 12:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, thank you -- I have cast a wide net. The earliest to volunteer, John Carter, came from the list posted at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject User Rehab; and others are considering what to do. --Tenmei (talk) 14:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I replied to your email. Robofish (talk) 16:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Decline

Sorry, but I've had only very tangential contact with that anything you've been involved with, and your case looks like a tar baby to me. You are spending way too much time coming up with allegedly clever little diagrams about mentorship and thinking outside boxes, and creating user sub pages about mentorship, and editing essays about mentorship, and so on, when the purpose of the ArbCom requiring you to have a mentor or be indefinitely blocked is for you to listen and follow some guidance on how to be a constructive editor here. Becoming absorbed with the process of finding and having mentor is inimical to that. Looks like several have accepted already anyway, so best of luck. Try to remember that this is encyclopedia-bulding project, not an experiment in virtual governance (not intentionally, anyway). — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(ل)ˀ Contribs. 19:25, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you is my knee-jerk response, but the unexpected reaction needs a little explanation. These comments are frustrating, on-point, ironic -- and also welcome.

SMcCandlish identifies the very things which I complained about in e-mails last week. I don't know about the tar baby, but the rest of his critical commentary resonated as comforting, reassuring and supportive.

A little background may help. In the the past year or so, ArbCom and others have vastly altered the fundamentals of mentorship without adequately anticipating the unintended consequences. The remedies ArbCom crafted for Mattisse illustrate a case-in-point, serving to explain why I'm investigating outside the box alternatives.

SMcCandlish's examples of misplaced activity include creating subpages -- see here; but this is not a novelty. Rather, it mirrors an approach which seems to be proving useful in other cases -- see here. He questions the efficacy of time invested in essay writing, but these exercises were proposed by tentative co-mentors whose ideas I am encouraged to make my own. This was informed by a similar strategy which seems to have worked well enough for another mentorship group -- see here. This writing has helped re-focus and refine my thinking about what I need, and yet, I felt impatient for the very same reasons he articulates crisply.

In this instance, SMcCandlish misconstrues something like blame for what was in fact cooperation. The irony is bitter, but not wrong. I reject the tone, but I accept the accuracy and timeliness of words I could have written myself. What I need now is a kind of alchemy which converts it all into something better? --Tenmei (talk) 21:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I may have misinterpreted some of what I was seeing. If the essay stuff has been helpful for you, then that is a good thing. I have a great many "fish to fry" as the saying goes, and you already have a number of mentoring volunteers so I think you'll be fine. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(ل)ˀ Contribs. 03:05, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Relevant links: Reinventing the wheel?

Hi Tenmei, I got your message and, unfortunately, I must also decline your very kind and flattering offer that I be one of your mentors. I simply do not have the time, plus, given my own edit history, I tend to get kind of pissed off rather fast, then throw fat on the fire more than calm things down, so if you need some pats and the back and encouragement to keep on editing and to be dedicated to high quality work, I'm sure willing to encourage you there, but I'd best stay out of mentoring. With a friend like me, you might not need any enemies! (grin) It does look like you are getting a small troop together, so good luck! Montanabw 22:39, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Decline - The Ogre

I'm sorry Tenmei, but I do not have the time or even the aptitude for mentorship. Hope all goes weel for you. The Ogre (talk) 10:05, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Regretfully, from GJC

Having read and considered the issues with which your mentorship would be concerned, I can't in good conscience accept. You stated that your main issues for improvement are the "TL;DR" issue, and the issue of overly-florid language, impenetrable sentence structure, and similar stylistic concerns; the problem with me mentoring you (or anyone!) in an effort to overcome these issues is that I am cursed with the same qualities in my writing. and continue to struggle with these and other stylistic challenges myself. Metaphorically speaking, I would be leading you through the darkness with no flashlight, while myself wearing dark glasses. That would be neither fair nor helpful to you--to say nothing of your other mentors! I do thank you, though, for considering me, and also for posting a link to my note to CoM...I was quite humbled indeed to see myself quoted! Good luck in your mentorship! GJC 01:47, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I note the modesty of your caveat, but I am undismayed. My knee-jerk response is to ask you to think again? Please allow an opportunity to develop. I need to engage a tentative discourse which allows a more nuanced overview to emerge.

Please consider contacting me by e-mail. I would hope for the opportunity to persuade you to agree to participate in a mentorship group, at least during the initial start-up phase. --Tenmei (talk) 04:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

SA's decline

I'm not sure that I would be the best of mentors for you. I have no problem engaging as an informal helpmate if you want to bounce ideas off me about how to phrase responses or contributions, but as I understand the arbcomm restriction on you, the mentorship they want you to set-up is intended to be probationary or even disciplinary. I do not think I can participate in that kind of arrangement. We're all just Wikipedians trying our best to do one thing or another. Mentorships work best when they allow a less experienced user to become friends with a more experienced user. I'm willing to be your friend in this regard, but I'm nervous about involving myself in any arbcomm games at this time having come out from under arbcomm sanctions not too long ago myself. Please let me know if there is anything more I can do.

ScienceApologist (talk) 06:10, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Ping. I have sent you an e-mail → A + B + C = ? At this point, my best guesses are only tentative, but it's a beginning. --Tenmei (talk) 07:04, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Mentorship

If you have any specific questions, I would be glad to help. However, I don't know if I would be the greatest mentor. I don't have an opportunity to be online regularly. However I hope I can help you with including the "fundamentals". I have discovered that there is a prevailing attitude among some that philosophy and intellectual foundations of things are completely a waste of ones and zeros. I find that various editors (including a few serious dedicated trouble makers, but also a lot of random innocent newcomers) delete a lot of valuable material because they "don't see the need" or just nitpick things to death -- things which they don't even seem to understand. My experience is mostly in the logic department and the problems are mostly with mathematicians.

The whole "concepts and theories" effort came about because I was working on putting articles into appropriate categories, and I discovered that when I organized the philosophy department into its existing categories (philosophers, literature, etcetera) that what was left over were a lot of "isms". I am quite interested in "isms" in general and I proceeded to try to find a good way to account for them all. Unfortunately, there are a lot of different ways to categorize them (schools of thought, views, ideologies etcetera etcetera). Since I am focused on logic, I realized that what they ALL have in common is that they can be expressed as "theories". (I.e. a set of true sentences T:{t1,t2,t3, ...} ) So I set up the whole "philosophical theories" category. Unfortunately, there is resistance to that plan also. For some articles some people insist that it isn't a "theory" because they don't really understand what a theory is --(I'm sure they are mislead by the whole "evolution is just a theory " crowd. Those people are just confused). Anyway, its still mostly working out fine.

After I managed to get almost all theories accounted for, I discovered that what was left were a lot of articles about abstract concepts (hard to categorize otherwise in many cases.) So I started working on concepts too.

I am not convinced that mentorship is really very important. If you have any troubles, let me know, or post to the philosophy discussion. The best advise I can give is to be patient, and remember that you won't always be able to get what you want, even if it's true and supported by sources. This place is very political. You have to compromise, and reformulate things (very often to please people you think do not understand the material.) Be well, I invite your correspondence.Greg Bard (talk) 21:24, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for this thoughtful response. Your comments are a welcome. They represent a constructive step towards a sort of collegiality which develops slowly. --Tenmei (talk) 18:34, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

JohnCarter

Has not edited since 25th December last year - I am not sure why people dont look at his contribs and realise he is not around - unless he has reincarnated into a sock or something - otherwise why leave a message there? SatuSuro 08:44, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

My message anticipates his eventual return to active editing. --Tenmei (talk) 18:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

A relatively private and obscure message to me at the time was a loss of a laptop was causing him problems - maybe the break has helped him see the light :) SatuSuro 03:45, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Tang Dynasty discussion

Hi, Ten. As much as I'd like to be able to help, I fear I know little to nothng about the subject. In reviewing your contributions, I'd say that you're doing a good job of editing on your own and that you aren't in any real need of mentoring. I am, of course, more than ready to jump in to help you if you have any questions or concerns. Remember to be bold and have fun! --PMDrive1061 (talk) 16:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

PMDrive1061 -- You hit several nails on the head.

• Yes -- I have done a very good job of editing .... My edit count is 40,000+; and I have encountered only a handful of of enquiries about my scrupulously sourced contributions.
• Yes -- I am in need of "jumping in" ....
• Yes -- I have questions and concerns ....

When the only tool available is a hammer, it is easy to see everything as a kind of nail. I appreciate the values of perseverance and application; and I continue to search for alternatives. The best tool for the job is not always a hammer; and not everything can be construed as a nail.

• No -- this is not the time to be bold ....
• No -- this is not fun.

Mentorship encompasses unexpected stumbling blocks. I need mentors to help me avoid barking up the wrong tree. --Tenmei (talk) 18:02, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Not really a "no."

As I pointed out, you're doing a great job of simply rolling up your sleeves and getting dirty. Never, ever be afraid to make a change. Any good faith edit is welcomed. If it gets reverted for whatever reason, just keep on keepin' on and don't let it worry you. Productive editors are a precious commodity; far too many accounts I find on the new user log wind up being vandalism-only. I'm as close as my talk page. You feel free to ask me anything if you have a worry or concern. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 02:04, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

mentorship

Thanks for your note. I'd love to, but I'm pretty completly retired right now. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 23:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Mentor

I'm sorry, but I will have to decline. Good luck, though. --Kbdank71 20:10, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Mentor

Hi Tenmei. I did not realise that previous notes were about you personally. I am looking into the links you have provided.

• Why are you seeking multiple mentors? I believe in a single mentor. If there are multiple mentors, there must be agreement among the mentors.
• I found some questions posed by yourself. You seem to think they are difficult. I think they are very easy:

• You should apologise whenever you realise that you have contributed to perceived difficulty or slight by another party. It does not matter if the cause was justifified, a communication ambiguity, or a reasonable inaction. Apologise now.
• You should apologise publicly and simply. Equivocating about the forms of an apology means that you are not apologising.

• You must never expect, and never ask for anyone to apologise to you. To demand an apology is to be backward looking, negative, and confrontational. A demanded apology is not an apology. What you may ask for is that someone not to something again.
• If following the above leaves you feeling aggrieved, see Meatball:DefendEachOther. Don't attempt to defend yourself. If you are justified, your only recourse is to wait for others to defend you. You may ask someone to look at a situation and to give their comment.
• If you can accept the above, and would like me to play a role of "official" mentor, I would also like some succinct statements on (1) Who you are & (2) Why you are here. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:04, 19 February 2010 (UTC)