Talk:Comparison of the AK-47 and M16

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Why does the manufacturing section of M16 includes cost of M4 ?

"As of 2012, the United States military buys M4 Carbines for $673 (USD) per unit"

PS the reference is no longer accessible.

DGerman (talk) 22:12, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

The M4 is the current issue M16 version. Also, I have updated the info and reference. The current cost is $647 per unit.--RAF910 (talk) 23:24, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

AVS-36 with over the barrel gas system predates StG-44 so how can the StG-44 have "introduced" the over the barrel gas system?

"The Russians had a Simonov in 1936 called the AVS-36 which was both semiautomatic and full automatic. It was gas operated, with the piston and gas cylinder on top of the barrel."TeeTylerToe (talk) 01:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Wrong again...please read the sentence before deleting referenced information.

"Unlike previous rifle designs, it introduced an over-the-barrel gas system, straight stock and pistol grip to reduce recoil and improve handling characteristics"

The AVS-36 may have an over-the-barrel gas system, but it does not have straight stock and a pistol grip. The STG-44 was the first to combine this three things.--RAF910 (talk) 21:07, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Pistol grips on rifles date back to 1840 at least

Pistol grips on rifles date back to 1840 at least, so how could the stg-44 have introduced them? Not to mention that it wasn't the first to share any particular set of features either, particularly in light of it's own history not as some sort of fresh, new design, but, rather, as the culmination of a design competition of several different rifles all with the same features, all derivative of, among other things, earlier german machine carbines.TeeTylerToe (talk) 21:08, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Again, looking at the source, it just talks about the stock and over the barrel gas system and is that wrong?

The AVS-36 seems to share those characteristics and it predates the stg-44, again.TeeTylerToe (talk) 22:56, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

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Topic: includes AR-15 rifles and M4s?

The M16's aluminum lower receivers may be forged or cast. Their receivers may also be made from titanium and a variety of other metallic alloys, composites or polymers. If necessary, the M16 can be machined from a billet of steel and fitted with wooden furniture. The M16's aluminum lower receiver may even be 3D printed, allowing "people with no gunsmith training to assemble a working assault rifle at home". The M16's internal components such as the bolt carrier group and charging handle may also be made of titanium. This makes the M16 ideal for market economy production, spread among many small manufacturers around the country, using a variety of materials and manufacturing methods; this ensures it would be nearly impossible to disrupt U.S. M16 production in the case of a major conflict.

Hatcher, Julian. Hatcher's Notebook.
Is my receiver cast or forged?. Olyarms.com. Retrieved on 2011-09-27.
What does my serial number mean?. Olyarms.com. Retrieved on 2011-11-19.
http://amalgamatedti.com/lower.pdf Amalgamated Titanium AR-15 lower receiver
http://amalgamatedti.com/upper.pdf Amalgamated Titanium AR-15 upper receiver
Home Defense & Recreation Rifles. Bushmaster. Retrieved on 2011-11-19.
Cavalry Manufacturing. Cavalry Manufacturing. Retrieved on 2011-09-27.
Frequently Asked Questions #23. What types of lower receivers does DPMS offer for the AR15?, DPMS Panther Arms
http://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/2016/02/03/pictures-great-looking-wooden-furniture-ars/ 12 Pictures of Gorgeous Looking Wooden Furniture for ARs. BY: Daniel Xu, 2/3/16
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191388-1200-the-price-of-legally-3d-printing-your-own-metal-ar-15-rifle-at-home Extreme Tech. $1200: The price of (legally) 3D printing your own metal AR-15 rifle at home. By Ryan Whitwam on October 2, 2014
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2689843/3d-vendor-sells-1500-part-to-make-metal-guns.html Computerworld. 3D vendor sells $1,500 machine to make metal guns. By Lucas Mearian Oct 1, 2014
http://amalgamatedti.com/bcg.pdf Amalgamated Titanium AR-15 Bolt Carrier Group
http://amalgamatedti.com/charger.pdf Amalgamated Titanium AR-15 Charging Handle

Virtually every source in this paragraph concerns civilian AR-15s, not military M16 rifles. (The last sentences looks like it might be original research).

As of 2015, the United States military buys M4 Carbines for $647 (USD) per unit.

http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2016/FY16_ITEF_J_Book.pdf OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE BUDGET FISCAL YEAR (FY) 2016. March 2015. FY 2016 Overseas Contingency Operations (OCO) Iraq Train and Equip Fund (ITEF)

This sentence refers to the price of M4 carbines, not M16 rifles. So the question is, does the scope of this article cover the entire AR-15 family versus the entire AK47 family? If so, that should be explained in the introduction. Also, when a source talks about an AR-15 we shouldn't change that to M16, we should say, for example "The AR-15's aluminum lower receivers may be forged or cast", or "Aluminum M16-style lower receivers may be..." since that's what the sources says. Felsic2 (talk) 20:32, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps the best way of defining the scope of this article would be to limit it to those specific derivatives of the AK and AR types that have been adopted as service rifles by the USSR/Russia or the U.S. That would include the AK-74, AK-105, etc, and the HK416, but exclude civilian AR-15 models. Felsic2 (talk) 01:25, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

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