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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ppdallo (talk | contribs) at 15:35, 15 October 2021 (→Suggested way Forward concerning 3 RFCs on Yoruba article talkpage: provided links and made some replies to Talisman). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Happy editing! Aristophanes68 (talk) 04:06, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Queen Fumi (August 16)

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Hello, Talisman-white! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Misplaced Pages where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! MurielMary (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Queen Fumi

Hello, Talisman-white. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:Queen Fumi, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Draft space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for article space.

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Thank you for your submission to Misplaced Pages. Bot0612 (talk) 22:11, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Queen Fumi

Hello, Talisman-white. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Queen Fumi".

In accordance with our policy that Misplaced Pages is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Misplaced Pages, and happy editing. Liz 00:32, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Hausa People

Please realise that the Yoruba have adopted Hausa culture in terms of dressing and even musical instruments (talking drum) as well as tie dye technique used in cloth dyeing. also the the hausa and Fulani have ethnically fused with the Yoruba in the town of Ilorin. So Yoruba are more related to Hausa than even the Nupe or Igbirra are with Hausa people.Ppdallo (talk) 09:08, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Yoruba People

Hello there. I am glad that you are here and you care so much about Yoruba people page. I would like to invite you to the Yoruba talk page so we can discuss some major edits I intend to make to the Yoruba people page because it is clear that it is full of fiction, falsehood and misleading information. Areas I intend to tackle are as follows: 1. Religion 2. Culture 3. History 4. Clothing 5.Musical Instruments Ppdallo (talk) 16:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Lets meet at the Yoruba talk page. It is the best place to discuss these issues. Ppdallo (talk) 18:32, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Lets meet at the Yoruba talk page and for god sake stop deceiving yourself, my friend! Stealing other people's culture in broad day light is easy but claiming it as your own is another. Yoruba are just like any of their neighbors in the Southern Nigerian forest belt such as the Binis, Igbo Itsekiri etc. Their contact with the Hausa is what made their "culture" different from those of their neighbors in the forest belt. Ppdallo (talk) 10:42, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Yoruba People.

Hello there. I have just reverted your edit on Yoruba people and would like to invite you to the Yoruba talkpage for discussion on the issues you raised in your edit as fololws: 1. Yoruba people are related to Hausa culturally and historically 2. Yoruba people are not related to the Gur Group The population figure is false. Thank you Ppdallo (talk) 13:39, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Yoruba people

1. You know that claimed relation is tantamount to garbage. I have already discussed with you months ago that there is nothing significantly connecting the Yorubas and the Hausas as you remain to admit. Let me reiterate

A. The Hausa people are a CHADIC group with strong R1b Haplogroup markers, which further connects them with other chadic groups. Yoruba haplogroup e1b1a=92. Mossi haplogroup e1b1a=90. Hausa haplogroup e1b1a=12. Conclusion: Yorubas and Gur are not significantly genetically related to Hausas; which is obvious unless such claims were politically motivated.
B. The Hausa people historically have very Sahelio-Islamic clothing mannerisms. These are clearly capturred by the use of Turbans, Camels, Garbs, which are in sharp contrast with anything traditionally Yoruba. A clear depiction is the image of the caravan and the wailer. It is clear where the camel riders are from and where the wrapped woman is not from. Neither the Nupe, the Gbagyi, the Ebira, nor the Edo have ever ridden camels culturally or engaged in turbaned and other Islamic form of clothing or displays. How you skipped all those groups and claim association with Yoruba is quite an impressive leap of good faith. If I was not from a West African community, I might not even realize the underlying political motivations. 
C. Language group: Afro-Asiatic vs Niger-Congo|Volta-Niger. Another self-evident point. Hausas share Afro-Asiatic language classification with other Chadic groups. Neither the Yoruba nor the Gur do.  
D. Do this Math: 219,463,862 * 0.155. If the answer is 34016898.61, then why do you keep on reverting the population figures on this page? Is it political  or is it just dishonesty?
E. Yorubas do not begin and end in Nigeria. The Gur groups in Benin and Togo are seamless with the Yoruba communities in the North of those countries and it did not take religious conquest. What the Nupes, Ebira, and Edos are to those in Nigeria is what they are to the ones in Togo and Benin and that expands on to the Ewe/Ga and the Dagomba by weak extension, but extension nonetheless. The way we interact is what true relation looks like, not political motivated drivel.
F. The biggest point you have is that the name Yoruba originated from the Hausa group. It is also worth noting that the term native American came from Europeans, and the continent of Asia was named by people west of the black sea. In all these listed cases, at least, they were named during travel. It bears mentioning that the the term was not even exchanged during contact but by a mutual visitor who asked the Hausas what the Yorubas were called to which they answered Yariba(or a variant). How that amounts to relatedness is less evident of worthy historical deliverable information but more evident of political motivations.
G. When you are not related genetically, by geographical adjacency, by language classification, by primary clothing habits and dress customs, by majority religion, by obvious behavioral idiosyncrasies reflected through worldview, how in the heck are you related? Sounds political, I might have missed it if I had not studied West African culture
H. Yorubas are neither Chadic, nor Sahelio-Islamic, nor Western-Eurasian in Haplogroup, nor Afro-asiatic, nor even on good terms with or adjacent to the Hausas.
I. Gurs are geographically Volta-Niger, of the same haplogroup, Niger-Congo, adjacent, are connected through historical events, and show the true transition of cultural wear which you are deceptively trying to credit to the Hausa. They occupy the space between the Coastal Yoruba and the Sahelio-Islamic groups which has made them conducive for trades in culture. Yoruba King: https://i.pinimg.com/474x/a5/60/ea/a560ea1a4d920226f84afec90f277ba9.jpg Mossi King (Moro Noba): https://i.redd.it/febvm5ergbt41.jpg
J. Don't mix politics and informational integrity. This is not Nigeria, this is the internet. 

--Talisman-white

Multiple accounts

• The account you created to continue edit warring has been blocked indefinitely.-- Jezebel's Ponyo 23:10, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Yoruba people

Yo, we need to talk. I am an ethnic Yoruba. My people are a Muslim-majority ethnic group, not a Christian-majority ethnic group. That is why Nigeria is a Muslim-majority nation. If we were a Christian-majority ethnic group, then Nigeria would be a Christian-majority nation. There is a direct correlation and there is plenty of evidence that the correlation exists. So I will need you to stop reediting the Yoruba people webpage or I will have Ppdallo and Oramfe to revoke your editing privileges from you and you won’t get to edit webpages anymore, understand? Abal126 (talk) 03:28, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Yoruba people

Oh, you were keeping alphabetical order, then in that case, I would like to apologise. Abal126 (talk) 03:58, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Yoruba people

Glad to know you are ethnic Yoruba, nice to meet you. The other guy came over from some northern page where I met him so I know he is northern. Now, a few things egbon:

1) For years the convention was kept a certain way, why did you think you could change it numerous times only to now understand that alphabetical order exists?
2) There are 3 sources referenced in the Religion field of the Infosection box. From which of these am I supposed to draw your "plenty of evidence"? I just went through them and do not see where evidence of muslims outnumbering other religions in the southwest is laid out.
3) On a personal note, my mother comes from a Yoruba muslim family and my father from a Yoruba christian just to give you an idea that my personal experience is not one-sided in this matter. My father is from a Christin family in the northern Yoruba plains and my mother from a muslim one by the coast. Just wanted to get that out of the way
4) In regard to faulty censuses, this is not new and if we really want to go there the whole Nigerian ethnic population numbers should be thrown right out the window but this is the best we can do to pretend we are presenting information with integrity on wkipedia -- we can only use citable numbers.
b) Take a look at this: you see that user NubaVertigo, that is my account. Follow the discussion. US CIA gives you the right to question their methodology for what they release in the fact book and after following with them, they shared documentation that shows that they got their ethnic population numbers from a simple non-mandatory health questionaire that was distributed at random in different parts of Nigeria but intentionally placed in rural areas so as to not get overrepresentation from the urban folk -- they wanted to understand the lives of the rural community or whatever. This means they avoided more of places like Lagos, etc. An exchange of healthcare survey data between the data collectors and the US agency and voila, the CIA suddenly extrapolated the numerical difference between ethnic groups in Nigeria... just like that! It is a ridiculous move, but unfortunately a citable one nonetheless. Bottomline.. if you are saying you know deep down in your heart that there are more muslims in the Southwest than adherents of other religions, and so think it best to convey that on wikipedia, then I will also have to feel deep down in my heart that the Yoruba population is underrepresented and we will start a brand new dance in the edit section. I like dancing, but I'd rather not in this scenario.
5) Look, if this is really not that big a deal, I suggest we just leave the ethnic Yoruba religion in the Religion section as the ancestral religion of Yoruba people as honestly it feels pathetic to bicker over foreign religions. Like why am I fighting over which Abrahamic religion represents me?? My suggestion is leave it the way it was before the back and forth started or just remove both Abrahamic religions and leave Yoruba religion as the only one that we can actually lay claim to.

For all the arguing, pele, ma binu haha— Preceding unsigned comment added by Talisman-white (talk • contribs) 04:27, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Yoruba people

Oh, and just for the record. I met Ppdallo on the Hausa page, then he followed me here and started changing things on this page and claiming all reversions to his own introduced changes were actual vandalizations -- Imagine that! How Hausa of him! SMH lol. I think you coincidentally popped in at the same time and also started reverting so it seemed a bit co-ordinated. Pele, I shouldn't have assumed ore mi. Anyway, bottomline is he can't revoke any of my priviledges. The message you see by Ponyo above was a 2 week block on my account because I created another user account named Earthquake1087 to try to discourage Ppdallo from thinking he was contesting with only me at the time. I mean, he was lol but I wasn't trying to type up a bunch of explanations to explain why I though he should get lost; I just wanted him to get lost. And judging by the fact that he got into a new reversion craze with Oramfe too lately, I doubt Oramfe will take his side on, I don't know, anything lol. You see, unlike Ppdallo, Oramfe and myself have been making additions to this page for a looooong time. Oramfe, on the other hand, for much much much longer than I have. He/she is like the Yoruba page daddy or whatever. I disappear periodically because I have other things to do away from Misplaced Pages; it has created the impression that I gave in to Ppshallow a few times but that's really just not the case. Like, the first time around I was going to make amazing points, I swear, but this girl came along and she was fine— Preceding unsigned comment added by Talisman-white (talk • contribs) 05:50, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Hhaha User:Talisman-white, Ppdallo is up to no good.... he obviously came and registered his/her account here on wikipedia based on an agenda unlike some of us who are actually here to make genuinely useful and neutral contributions. I have some extra time on my hands these days to monitor any of his edits that could be interpreted as one with a maligning intent (basically vandalism)... I will also be reviewing some of the historical inaccuracies that he has gradually cultured on the Yoruba people page since at least 2018. Oramfe (talk)

Thanks User:Oramfe! That will be really helpful --User:Talisman-white

September 2021

Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. This is just a note to let you know that I've moved the draft that you were working on to Draft:Yoruba architecture, from its old location at User:Talisman-white/sandbox. This has been done because the Draft namespace is the preferred location for Articles for Creation submissions. Please feel free to continue to work on it there. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to ask me on my talk page. Thank you. -Liance 21:28, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Yoruba architecture has been accepted

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Misplaced Pages! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

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Thanks again, and happy editing!

Oluwatalsiman (talk) 00:47, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Yoruba people

What is wrong with you? How can you put the Portuguese equivalent for my people? You are screw ing around with the history of my people and I am not having it! Abal126 (talk) 17:02, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

You are right. I will remove both the Portuguese and Arabic references as they do not apply. Thank you Oluwatalsiman (talk) 17:04, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Yoruba people

Do not erase the Ajami script of my people! My people have historically written in the script and some of us still do. My patience is wearing thin. Abal126 (talk) 17:12, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Your people can write in any script that they want on the correct Misplaced Pages page for it. Yoruba also share Portuguese language history. How many Non-English languages are we going to admit to the page while Misplaced Pages has language variants? I am Yoruba and grandmother's father is a returnee from Brazil who spoke Portuguese and clustered among the Aguda/Amaros returnees in Lagos. Thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Talisman-white (talk • contribs) 17:19, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Ajami Script

I have evidence that refers to us using the Ajami script today. I have the appropriate links. If you would just allow me to put the links, that would be great. Abal126 (talk) 15:44, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Ajami script

Ok. I will bring it to you shortly. If you look it up in KIU Journal of Humanitites. This is an article that is named Ajami Tradition in Non-Islamic Society: The Roles of Ajami-Arabic Scripts in Keeping Records and Tradition. It says it there. Abal126 (talk) 16:15, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Abal126 Can you leave it in the paragraphs and remove it from the templates please? It's not specified what sub arabic script it is in the template and doing so will make the text really clunky if I might say. The paragraph, on the other hand, specifies the type of Arabic script and people can see why it is there, and it does not seem to seek to use wiki as a promotion tool for the script. The fact is that Yoruba has a standardized script. Leave it in the first paragraphs and remove from the templates, please.Oluwatalsiman (talk) 16:51, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

This will be the honest thing to do, as it is in fact not standard Yoruba and not used but only exits promotionally Oluwatalsiman (talk) 16:53, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

When you read the article. It says that today, Ajami-Arabic script is used in Hausa, Fulfulde, Nupe, Kanuri, and Yoruba and other African languages. Abal126 (talk) 17:12, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Abal126 It is used but it is not recognized on any academic level or governmental level for the people, so it not global for the ethnicity, though promotional. Saying something is used is not saying it is standardized. I wear jeans; that doesn't make jeans Yoruba and I shouldn't be adding that claim on Misplaced Pages. Adding it to the ethnic group template seems promotional, in my opinion. Furthermore, it was probably relegated to a specific subgroup -- likely the Igbomina. It is definitely not used nationally or ethnically and that is not controversial as we both know it isn't. Simply including the Arabic script in the opening paragraph will do as there is a link and the link will let the reader know why it is there. I am Yoruba, btw. By the way, I hate to tell you this but I am reporting you for persistent reverting :(. Sorry. You just can't keep removing updates Oluwatalsiman (talk)

You got to remember that I am an ethnic Yoruba as well. Some of us still use the Ajami script. In fact, I am an example of ethnic Yoruba who still uses the Ajami script in my everyday life. Abal126 (talk) 17:56, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Okay, my sincere apologies. Glad you made your points and thank you for your conversation. Hope we can correspond further on Misplaced Pages. No hard feelings brother. Hope we can talk later Oluwatalsiman (talk) 18:08, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Ok. No problem, brother. We can talk at anytime. Abal126 (talk) 18:11, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Abal126 I am making one last update to these articles. I am specifying that it is Ajami. You can inspect it later let me know if it is okay. Oluwatalsiman (talk) 18:17, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Ok, cool. Abal126 (talk) 18:27, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I am okay with that. Thank you very much, brother. Abal126 (talk) 18:41, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

September 2021

Your recent editing history at Yoruba language shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
I have seen that you appear to have resolved the issue, but next time I strongly advise you not to resort to edit-warring again, and to discuss controversial changes in the talk page of the relevant article to ensure wider input. Austronesier (talk) 07:35, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Austronesier Hi, thanks for the warning. Can I point out that it was my edit that was first reverted and I initiated the resolution instead somewhere along the discussion above? This opening discussion was a response to my question here: . For full diffs, see: . The "Manual revert" tag shows up next to my userid 3 times with comments left each time, but the automatic revert tags show up 4 times with no comments offered (for iding, the auto reverts are not mine) and I was well aware that I could have submitted an action request on the fourth, but did not because that was not my goal. The diff comments left by me are what led to the opening discussion; the initiation of the discussion above was not without them. I was always open to a discussion from the start.
Please see diffs:
First revert(not my initiation):
Second revert(my edit):
Third revert:
Fourth revert(my edit):
Fifth revert:
Sixth revert(my edit):
Seventh revert:
Can this please be acknowledged, if you find the time?
Also, can I ask what happens next if no wider input is presented?Oluwatalisman (talk) 11:16, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Please disregard the final question; I see it is answered here: "If discussions reach an impasse... post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution... you may wish to request temporary page protection." Thank you!!!! :) Oluwatalisman (talk) 11:24, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Please don't think that not breaking the 3RR-rule means that it's ok to push it to the limit. Please understand that even with exactly three reverts, this nevertheless is edit-warring which is always disruptive. what happens next if no wider input is presented? That's hypothetical, since you haven't brought it to Talk:Yoruba language. Just like the other party involved.

Can I point out that it was my edit that was first reverted Yes, an that's exactly where WP:BRD set in. This was not a "resolution", but just resolute. –Austronesier (talk) 11:56, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes! but not that one; this one . And thank you for this link WP:BRD, Austronesier!!! I will read throught it XD Oluwatalisman (talk) 12:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, please do. There a reason it's not called WP:BRRRRRRRD. :) –Austronesier (talk) 13:57, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Hahahahahaha, XD Austronesier -Oluwatalisman (talk) 15:21, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Suggestion

From what I can tell, besides Abal126, you are least experienced (in terms of history editing Misplaced Pages) user among the four active editors in the Yoruba topic. You may find it helpful to read Help:Talk pages and Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines to get a better sense for how most Wikipedians format discussions.

It's pretty clear you are at a stand-still when it comes to what has been said at Talk:Yoruba people. I think that you are probably here in good faith with good intentions, and you obviously want to resolve the dispute. Maybe take the content issue to WP:DRN? I'm sure Snow Rise would agree that it might be a good step here.

Alternatively, it seems you may have taken some issue with the conduct of another editor. My general advice is to try and resolve what issue you have with them peacefully at their talk page. If that doesn't work, then read Misplaced Pages:ANI advice and Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution to help decide next steps for yourself. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 00:22, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

MJL ‐Talk‐ Thank you!!! I will keep these shortcuts for referencing, in addition to reading them over. =D -Oluwatalisman (talk) 12:28, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Notice of No Original Research Noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:No original research/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppdallo (talk • contribs) 12:19, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Notice of neutral point of view noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppdallo (talk • contribs) 11:45, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Suggested way Forward concerning 3 RFCs on Yoruba article talkpage

please see comment ] made by Pyrrho the Skeptic, suggesting a possible way forward in relation to our content dispute on Yoruba talk page, which is not far from two earlier comments made by El_C (Third opinion comment on Yoruba edit summary page with time stamp 16:43, 17 September 2021.) and Snow Rise RFC advice]), both of whom have observed that the Talkpage discussion is confusing and needed to be simplified and summarized.

Note that an attempt to simplify and summarize the discussions ended up in the same type of confusion as in the main discussion. This, in my humble opinion, stems from the style of editing you employed during the discussions which seems to be premised on your assertion on edit summary page that Hausa editors are holding an agenda and trying to impose Islam on Yorubas ("Hausa boys, stop trying to make Yorubas muslim by force. Lol, this is wikipedia not Nigeria"). Assertions like this ("...suggest that your intentions are as rotten as the edits you are making on the Yoruba People page -- If I don't see you change the title of this page to "Yoruba peoples", then I will have to call you out on inconsistency and hypocrisy and force you to acknowledge that you know you are lying.") and this ("This is another showing of your hand that you are trying to Islamicize Yorubas through Misplaced Pages edits and forced relation with the expansionist philosophies that emanate from sects of known of your group.") and this ("I have already told you that Misplaced Pages is not the place to try to Arabize the Yoruba people or to add them to some Hausa/Arab Expansion pack") and this ("..and stop trying to colonize Yorubas through Wiki. It looks weird") can be seen interspersed throughout your submissions in the subsequent discussions on Yoruba the talk page, which is a repeated violation of all relevant Misplaced Pages rules and policies guiding discussions between editors and editor neutrality. In fact it is the result of your repeated violation of Misplaced Pages rules and policies that got the whole discussions to such a confused state and i enumerate instances as follows:

1. This was the text of the content under dispute as at 15, November 2018 ] which i gradually improved up till the version on 19th November 2019] when challenged by Oramfe. I invited him to the talkpage and this was our discussions ]] before he finally gave up on it. Then you came two years later on 12th September 2021 and drastically changed the content without any attempt at seeking concensus]. I reverted your edit and invited you to the talkpage for a discussion. You immediately reverted back to your version, countering with ("The reversion of the work of a fellow contributor was your initiation. The discussion should have been and should be initiated by you. Do not revert a 3rd time.") in clear violation of (WP:ONUS) while opting to enforce WP:BRD, which is not encouraged by Misplaced Pages. Realizing that we could end up in an edit war, I opted to start the discussion which you joined and ended up making hate speeches and uncomplimentary assertions about tribes other than your Yoruba tribe.
2. On the issue of the map, i would only repeat what i said earlier on the talk page and that was the map under discussion was between Oramfe and myself. It did not involve you but you forced yourself in on the discussion and hijacked everything. I would like to point out here that Oramfe and myself had already reached a consensus on this matter before you joined the discussion and i quote him ("-If at all I do change that map to use Ethnologue's resource, then the topic of any such new change will have to be altogether different since there is no way I can tell population sizes from the map, just immediate territory.-The midway agreement here will be to hybridize both maps and limit the extent of the Mokole in Northern Benin to just their immediate lands alone as shown on ethnologue while adopting the population figures from peoplegroups.org"). Your forced entry into the discussion forced me to take it up in the RFCs, thereby adding to the confused state of the discussions.
   

In light of above and the need to reflect the deep importance of adhering to Misplaced Pages policies in the face of such repeated violations as well as discourage other editors from following in the same path, i would like to suggest the following:

• The Etymology section reverts to its original state (as it had essentially been for two years) to before your drastic edit and then we start over from there.
• You keep out of the map discussion since Oramfe and myself have already reached consensus before you forced yourself in.
• Lastly but not least, we all should ensure that our conducts adhere to relevant protocols and policies recommended by Misplaced Pages in our future discussions.
  

MJL, Pyrrho the Skeptic, El_C and Snow Rise please take note. Any further advice or corrections would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Ppdallo (talk) 20:46, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Ppdallo

• Can you please stick to content you have qualms with? I have provided supporting citations for the text that you have found upsetting. Are the commenters in disagreement with the text as it currently is? Can you also acknowledge what I have pointed out as flaws which warrant updating? From, , the word "Yoruba" is not a Hausa word ] -- Merriem Webster classifies it as a Yoruba word. Your source states that it was popularized by Europeans through ethnic categorization, not Hausa usage , and there is no source for such a degree of attribution to Ajami or to Mohammed Bello in the very same text. Furthermore, the last state of the text I made my warranted edit from was not two years ago, but a moment before that edit itself. Can you please stop seemingly trying to remove a paragraph you do not like by pointing to versions which are conveniently old? . Also, you have accused me of making a change to a block of text you last discussed in 2019, in number 1 above. At what point is the text no longer under dispute; is it still under dispute in 2021 because you once discussed it 2019? I am trying to avoid a filibuster. Furthermore, I will not accept blame for making an initial edit which now has the required sources over which the RFC was created, and over which commenters have no feedback.
• Oramfe has already confirmed in the RFC section that there was no such consensus and explained in detail what transpired between the both of you , to which you replied with that you would not expect otherwise from him and I since we are birds of a feather. What was that?? Furthermore, I have nothing to do with your and Oramfe's map discussion, so adding my default Misplaced Pages right of way edit is not forcing myself into a discussion. I have reminded you of this; in relation to both of you, I am an independent editor. My edit aligns with his understanding of the matter and there is no other honest point of view I hold on this subject. In that scenario too, sources have been provided. I am not sure what the qualm is.
• For the sake of Misplaced Pages's policy, I will assume the best but I will leave this for Misplaced Pages readers to judge the attitude you edit with: THEREFORE WITHOUT THAT HAUSA WORD THERE WOULD NEVER BE A YORUBA TRIBE AS WE KNOW IT TODAY. THEREFORE THANK HAUSA PEOPLE FOR THAT. . I will also add edits where you kept switching religions around , for reasons I don't understand, and edits where you were found tampering with the ethnic group infobox template causing it to "break" , before an admin stepped in and blocked you for edit warring , immediately after which a mysterious user we have not seen since stepped in and continued your last line of edit action while warning the admin and then disappearing. -Oluwatalisman (talk) 03:29, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Oluwatalisman Wow! Trying to change order of religions in the infobox was not my edit. It was the work of Abal126, who is your fellow Yoruba and this is the discussions you had with him on your own talkpage.User_talk:Talisman-white#Ajami_script_2. You know very well that he is ethnic Yoruba like you but you openly scapegoated me for reasons best known to you. I leave this for commenters/readers to judge. But seriously, I demand apologies from you for such attempt at damaging my character. On the issue of your edit of Etymology section, it is in violation of the No original research (WP:NOR) policy of Misplaced Pages. You synthesized published materials to imply new conclusions and also introduced duplicate and conflicting content that contradicts the cited references. The text you reverted is better sourced and closer in content to the cited references than your heavily editorialized version, which is a violation of (WP:NPOV)Ppdallo (talk) 08:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, Ppdallo, you are right. It was my edit of changing the order of the religions. I only did it to begin with because of numerical order. Islam is the religion of the majority of us, followed by Christianity, and finally, our own religion. If you look at the wiki page of the list of contemporary ethnic groups, you will see some other tribes with multiple religions being practiced much like us but the multiple religions being practiced are listed in numerical order instead of alphabetical order. Then the second, we actually did get our name from the Hausa and we actually share some history with them mainly through the city of Ilorin as the city of Ilorin was for a long time a trading and military outpost of the Oyo Empire. Hausa, Fulani ,Nupe, Borgu, Kanuri, and even immigrants from as far as the Mali Empire and the Songhai Empire came to settle down in Yorubaland through Ilorin and Old Oyo. We also came into contact with Arabs. It was finally sealed with the Fulani jihad that erased the Oyo Empire from existence around 1835 or 1836. Because of this, Ilorin is to this day ruled by a Fulani emir and a large portion of the Yoruba population can also claim Hausa and Fulani descent as they have long intermarried. By the way, what is now the population of my people as of 2021?. I believe that doesn’t it have to be updated again? Abal126 (talk) 09:14, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Abal126 Thank you for corroborating Hausa historic relationship with Yoruba. It is a relationship of mutual respect and progress for many centuries up till the end of the 1800s. Today people like Talisman have turned things into enmity and reasons to attack and castigate Hausa people. Just go ahead and update your population figures, Ajami script as well as order of religions so far you can cite reliable source. Cheers! Ppdallo (talk) 09:58, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Ppdallo, it really seems like you, Oramfe, and Talisman-white have been going at it with one another. I was reading the captions that you guys made to one another. Abal126 (talk) 10:35, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Ppdallo since I have been mentioned here, I will go ahead and respond to this as well. I have not turned things into enmity and a reason to attack and castigate the Hausa people. Here is the account of the only thing you have left to claim as some sort of bridge between these two very different ethnicities . Note that Afunja is a Yoruba man, and that Amodo was the Oyo emperor of that time. Also, here is the Encyclopedia Britannica's account of Ilorin . Note that the two texts converge on the 19th century and not on many centuries, and that Ilorin was a rogue state. I will continue this later if this line of conversation continues. -Oluwatalisman (talk) 13:49, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Ppdallo These are your edits:. I am well aware of the discussions I had with Abal126 on this. I have left my discussions on my talk page. I am also aware of the discussions I had with you on this . This is the version you, in number 1, have said you gradually improved the section to: . Does it not rely on the very same "published material()" you seem to be saying I have synthesized into the text? In the same spirit of the user/admin you discussed with here , I am going to reaffirm: "Before your first edit to the article, it already utilized that resource. It said that before your edits and it says that after your edits. Your grievance?" I still don't know why you haven't pointed out the contradictions while I have pointed out those from you. To reaffirm, the contradictions are "From, , the word "Yoruba" is not a Hausa word ] -- Merriem Webster classifies it as a Yoruba word. Your source states that it was popularized by Europeans through ethnic categorization, not Hausa usage , and there is no source for such a degree of attribution to Ajami or to Mohammed Bello in the very same text." I don't know how you can claim that The text I reverted is better sourced and closer in content to the cited references than my heavily editorialized version, or that WP:NPOV and WP:NOR is now your saving grace. -Oluwatalisman (talk) 13:49, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

References

1. ^ Maureen Warner-Lewis (1997). Trinidad Yoruba: From Mother Tongue to Memory. University of the West Indies. p. 20. ISBN 978-976-640-054-5.

Oluwatalisman Earlier in my discussions with you over this issue, i told you that your color was showing in response to some of your above quoted comments.Your seeming refusal to apologize for willfully and falsely accusing a fellow editor in a frame-up job says it all. No wonder, it seems, you had no qualms violating Misplaced Pages's (WP:ONUS) to replace a content that had stood for three years and gradually been improved over that space of time, with a new content that is heavily biased and synthesized out of published materials to imply new conclusions. That is a clear violation of Misplaced Pages's two of three core content policies(WP:NPOV and WP:NOR) and for your information Misplaced Pages says these policies are non-negotiable, and the principles upon which they are based cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, nor by editor consensus . In spite of all that you were given a chance to explain your edit, but instead you repeatedly went into abusive and even hate statements against certain tribe and religion other than your own, in clear violation of all relevant Misplaced Pages rules and policies guiding discussions between editors and editor neutrality.
At this juncture, i am not sure if you still deserve the benefit of doubt that Snow Rise suggested in your favor ("if Ppdallo was reverting you or another editor in the case of a relatively recent addition, then the normal process expected by policy here is that the person advocating for the inclusion of that content bears the burden (WP:ONUS) of securing consensus for the change (That said, to reflect the deep importance of avoiding violations of WP:EW, whatever the standing version with regard to the disputed content that is standing now should be preserved until the RfCs resolve.")) when i first opened the three RFCs with the hope of resolving the dispute. This is because it seems you are not interested in resolving this dispute as can be seen from your way and manner of discussions.
In view of the above, I would once again suggest the following:

• The Etymology section reverts to its original state (as it had essentially been for three years) to before your drastic edit and then we start over from there.
• You keep out of the map discussion since Oramfe and myself have already reached consensus before you forced yourself in.
• Lastly but not least, we all should ensure that our conducts adhere to relevant protocols and policies recommended by Misplaced Pages in our future discussions.

MJL, Pyrrho the Skeptic, El_C and Snow Rise please take note. Any further advice or corrections would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Ppdallo (talk) 10:15, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ppdallo: If this is going to be a substantial accusation against Talisman-white, then you are going to need to provide diffs to back up your points. (responding to ping) –MJL ‐Talk‐ 19:56, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

@MJL Thanks for your advice! Yes i will provide diffs to back up my points Ppdallo (talk) 11:56, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ppdallo: Okay, let me know when you have done so. Cheers, –MJL ‐Talk‐ 17:56, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Ppdallo I posted this as a response to an above comment but I will post it here as well. These are your edits:. I am well aware of the discussions I had with Abal126 on this. I have left my discussions on my talk page. I am also aware of the discussions I had with you on this . This is the version you, in number 1, have said you gradually improved the section to: . Does it not rely on the very same "published material()" you seem to be saying I have synthesized into the text? In the same spirit of the user/admin you discussed with here , I am going to reaffirm: "Before your first edit to the article, it already utilized that resource. It said that before your edits and it says that after your edits. Your grievance?" I still don't know why you haven't pointed out the contradictions while I have pointed out those from you. To reaffirm, the contradictions are "From, , the word "Yoruba" is not a Hausa word ] -- Merriem Webster classifies it as a Yoruba word. Your source states that it was popularized by Europeans through ethnic categorization, not Hausa usage , and there is no source for such a degree of attribution to Ajami or to Mohammed Bello in the very same text." I don't know how you can claim that The text I reverted is better sourced and closer in content to the cited references than my heavily editorialized version, or that WP:NPOV and WP:NOR is now your saving grace. -Oluwatalisman (talk) 13:40, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

@Oluwatalisman Please note the following:

1. Your ref is the wrong version. Check my no. 1, 2018 version .
2. Yours above, please read the text from page 19-20 and you will get the full context.
3. On Muhammadu Bello you requested for citation and was provided. yet you went ahead to expunge his name.
4. The 2021 version you edited was essentially the same as that of 2019 vesion.
5. You cannot bring about a filibuster because this is not parliamentary discussions lol.
6. It is not necessary for you to accept blame for breaking a wikipedia (WP:ONUS)policy, but in the end the Misplaced Pages rules will always prevail.
7. As for Oramfe denying my concensus with him, you can check out the link.
8. On the issue of the map, you actually were not independent as can be seen from you edit summary after forcing yourself into the discussion
9. My edits of were all reversions of edits you earlier made along the line, eliminating Hausa people from the related ethic group section. Just read my edit summary and you will see.
10. Your is not the same as my in no. 1.
11. yes it is the same published material but is much closer to the source than you version.
    

In light of above, I would like to encourage commenters to read the Yoruba and Gur Group section of Talkpage, as well as its three subsections for a full view of all the seemingly abusive statements you spewed against a fellow editor as well as certain tribe and religion different than your own.
As a final note, I cite another even more serious instance where you willfully and falsely accused me of an edit i did not make, having fully discussed and agreed on the edit with the person that made it, as evidenced in the link (I have already told you that Misplaced Pages is not the place to try to Arabize the Yoruba people or to add them to some Hausa/Arab Expansion pack. It is an encyclopedia for crying out loud, and all your post and revert are about this. What is with the new entry of posting an Ajami translation of the title to the page? Yorubas speak French even more! Yoruba will do, English will do, even French. That translation neither servers an understanding of the topic of the page nor the language of this Misplaced Pages version and you reverted my change to do it; this is English Misplaced Pages for crying out loud. Virtually nobody here reads or writes in Ajami. Please consider adding it to the Arabic translation of the Yoruba people. We cannot add every language to the text, other Wikipedias exist for that and stop trying to colonize Yorubas through Wiki. It looks weird).
MJL, I have provided the necessary diffs and would also like to call your attention to Oramfe's newest edit of the section under dispute also in violation of (WP:ONUS). Any further advice or corrections would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!Ppdallo (talk) 15:35, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

1. Maureen Warner-Lewis (1997). Trinidad Yoruba: From Mother Tongue to Memory. University of the West Indies. p. 20. ISBN 978-976-640-054-5.