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Her/Him

Perhaps semantics, but wouldn't it be better to change the gender pronoun here from "her" and the noun "woman" to "him" and "man" since the it's a description of the character prior to the gender-affirming surgery?

"... a feared cartel leader who enlists a lawyer to help her disappear and achieve her dream of transitioning into a woman ..." JohnAKeith (talk) 18:24, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

While fictional, I believe MOS:GENDERID/MOS:GIDINFO still applies. Mason7512 (talk) 02:21, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

she does not "transition" onto being a woman, she "confirms" as such.

we cannot use terms like "transition" or "change" anywhere, or violate the policy.

her time in switzerland should be referred to as a "name change" (rita -> emilia); that's all we are privy to. 2601:18A:807C:1C40:A07D:F758:F7C1:6A94 (talk) 09:56, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Controversy in Mexico and Latin America

Won't try to add it muself since I'm not a good editor but the film has been massively controversial in Mexico, the country being portrayed, and in the wider Latin America. Despite this, the article doesn't even mention the controversy and the bad reception the movie has amassed in these countries, nor the comments made my the actors and the director addressing the controversy. Shouldn't this be added to the article? MexicanWriter156123 (talk) 01:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Name reliable sources that discuss the controversy here, and hopefully other editors will summarize them in the article. Nardog (talk) 09:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

French?

Is this is a French musical? Isn’t it depicted in Mexico? 2603:8080:1100:13A5:4903:25A9:C91B:88B2 (talk) 05:21, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

You can modify it by citing any WP:RS. Lorstaking (talk) 06:03, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

The nationality of a film is determined by who produced it, not where it was shot or where it's set. Nardog (talk) 07:20, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Nardog answered your question. Slumdog Millionaire is set in and shot in India. It is a British film. Star Wars was shot in England and Tunisia. It is an American film.

As credited on the poster, the following companies produced Emilia Pérez:

• Why Not Productions
• Page 114
• Pathé
• France 2 Cinéma
• Saint Laurent Productions
• Library Pictures International
• Logical Content Ventures
• Les Films du Fleuve
• The Veterans
• CNC
• Région Ile-de-France
• Tax Shelter
• Casa Kafka Pictures
• Canal+
• France Télévisions
• Ciné+ OCS

All of the above are French. Οἶδα (talk) 08:49, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Les Films du Fleuve is Belgian. So is Casa Kafka Pictures and Library Pictures International appears to be US-based. Given how low they are on the totem pole, it's debatable it should be considered a co-production though, and we should always defer to reliable sources. Nardog (talk) 12:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, you are correct. I concocted the reply rather quickly from an earlier summary I posted in which I indicated that none of those listed companies were Mexican.

I have not altered the nationality in the article because, as you mention, they are low on the totem pole. Unless a company is credited as producer or co-producer, I typically do not mention their country of origin as being part of the film's 'nationality'. I have found that typically reflects the film's nationality as described in reliable sources. However, that is not to say that this is a guideline mentioned at WP:MOSFILM. Infobox_film#Country also comments on the ambiguity in film nationalities. I noticed this recently with The Seed of the Sacred Fig, which was produced by its Iranian director through his Hamburg-based production company alongside a French company. The film is nevertheless widely described as a German-French-Iranian co-production in reliable sources. Οἶδα (talk) 22:59, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

We usually include the nationality in the first sentence as part of identifying the topic, so X-nationality film is usually an X-nationality production. For a film like this, in which the so-called nationality seems at odds with the film's content, it can be worth revising to frame it better. I think language works as an alternative to the production nationality. My suggestion would be to introduce it as a Spanish-language film (the language parameters seem wrong in considering three languages primary) per Screen Daily, and the second sentence can indicate that it is a French production. I feel like that would frame it correctly and cover all the bases upfront. Erik (talk | contrib) 00:05, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I just incorporated what I outlined above. Ping me if you want to discuss. Erik (talk | contrib) 15:16, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I would be both actually wary of the sense that language is there to fill gaps left by other considerations. Plus I am not comfortable with the (in my view, narrow) idea of countries being "at odds" with languages, although any possible wording for the opening statement can be backed up by sources, including yours.--Asqueladd (talk) 16:36, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

As I previously posted to 179.133.78.105, identifying a film's language in the opening sentence is not forbidden but is unconventional per MOS:FILMLEAD. I understand the impetus to add the impression that the film's production origin contrasts its 'Spanish' qualities, but the lead sentence as it existed satisfies FILMLEAD and was accurate. Any motivation to detract from perceived "Frenchness" would presumably be a subjective goal with no guideline as precedent. The purpose of the guideline at MOS:FILMCOUNTRY was to avoid the verbosity involved in describing films for which there is no singular nationality, and for that information to instead be covered later in the lead section. That would not apply here because the nationality of Emilia Perez is singularly French. It was tentatively announced as a French-Mexican coproduction due to Pimienta Films's involvement, but upon the theatrical release in France the film's poster and opening/end credits revealed all of the main producing companies were French. The film is furthermore described as being a fully French production in reliable sources. There is no valid reason to suppress nationality in the opening sentence. As The Hollywood Reporter wrote, Emilia Pérez defies description. A musical crime drama written directed by French auteur Audiard, shot almost entirely in Paris, set almost entirely in Mexico against a backdrop of narco-culture, with dialogue and musical numbers in Mexican Spanish." A most unique instance in film, but why force one description when nationality is singular? Οἶδα (talk) 07:46, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

it was listed as "France" at the golden globes, fwiw. 2601:18A:807C:1C40:A07D:F758:F7C1:6A94 (talk) 09:59, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Sock, see my comment above about why "Spanish-language" is more appropriate than "French" upfront. "French production" is used in the second sentence. I think it's uncommon to have that divergence. Like with a film with multiple countries involved, we wouldn't add any of them because we don't want to misrepresent. I think language is an acceptable alternative because usually the nationality indicates that the film will be in the nationality's main language. Erik (talk | contrib) 13:10, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

@Erik: I didn't even notice "French production" in the second sentence, just that "Spanish-language" was before it. My mistake there! The current verbiage is much better, "Spanish-language French film" was just a bit too much to lead with in my opinion. Sock (tock talk) 14:15, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

why does gomez keep switching to english in the film?

i deal with bilingual people and there's a bit more logic to when they switch.

her character does it in odd places!

poor writing, imho. 2601:18A:807C:1C40:195F:CCCA:E64D:7FDA (talk) 22:59, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

This is a place to discuss potential changes to the article, not your opinions on the movie. 172.89.132.192 (talk) 14:55, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Financial flop

Why no mention that the film is a financial, besides critical, flop? 2A02:A212:A583:8C80:A95B:3B42:F30E:5B69 (talk) 13:53, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

We need reliable sources writing about that. I looked but did not see any sources doing that. We don't do that ourselves just because the math seems to check out. Sometimes films lose more or less than just calculating box office minus budget, depending on P&A, tax breaks, distribution deals, etc. This film got a limited release and is on Netflix now, so that becomes a less decipherable outcome as is the case with subscription services. Erik (talk | contrib) 14:00, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Actually, finally found one (had to filter out the Golden Globes coverage):

• The Guardian: "At $8.8m in global box office takings so far, Emilia Pérez hasn't looked likely to replicate the success of last year's winners, though that could change on the back of its prize haul and with cinematic releases in Italy and Scandinavia still to come next year."

I think this at least indicates more forthcoming box office revenue. We can keep checking. Erik (talk | contrib) 14:04, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

"Rita"

is rita a male name in spanish?

i'm confused by the basic premise. is the name change from rita to emilia for reasons OTHER than gender issues? going into hiding or w/e?

i.e was she ALREADY presenting as female even before switzerland?

have not seen the film, but if the premise is a male cartel leader in the beginning of the film, this name "Rita" is throwing me off. in english that is strictly a female name!

2601:18A:807C:1C40:A07D:F758:F7C1:6A94 (talk) 10:08, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Rita is a different character. Read the "cast" section 2A00:F41:B010:43B7:A9CE:2253:C59D:9481 (talk) 12:32, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

oh god, yes, i really misread that!

but that brings up a bigger issue. we cannot DEADNAME the character, can we?

the conclusion above was that even in a work of fiction, we cannot use the pronoun "he" on emilia's earlier self. if so, we certainly cannot be calling her "juan" in print! 2601:18A:807C:1C40:C5FF:2359:E0:1DB4 (talk) 06:37, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Accolades

Why delete the accolades if they are still listed under the Wiki page about critics groups? Perhaps then delete the same organizations from all the other 2024 movies at least, like Wicked or Anora and not just Emilia Pérez? 95.123.87.243 (talk) 10:03, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

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