Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Dmcq (talk | contribs) at 00:36, 18 October 2009 (→Civility and bad faith: and the point was?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Quotes applicable to my opinion that- Misplaced Pages's belief that "verifiable" trumps the truth is stupid

Some Wikipedian's beliefs that being verifiable is somehow more important than being the truth is dangerous. I am not the only one who believes this about "facts". Facts that are sourced and presented in wikipedia but that are not true are dangerous because they present themselves (since they are referenced) as the truth. This perpetuates things that are wrong, not only because of the proliferation of that information through "mirror-sites", but through other websites that use wikipedia for THEIR sources, and just through the people who look here and then go tell their friends. Most importantly it makes wikipedia unreliable to professors, teachers, the media, professionals/experts, and the general public. Misplaced Pages has a bad reputation not for having unsourced material, its reputation stems from just plain WRONG material. I am a strong supporter of Misplaced Pages:Use common sense and support the current push to strengthen it and make it an official guideline.

Feel free to add quotes you think that apply to this position or ones you make up yourself or just a comment supporting the position if you agree!

• A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. Thomas Paine
• Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong. Thomas Jefferson
• An age is called Dark, not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it. James Michener
• The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge. Daniel Boorstin
• Three minutes thought would suffice to find this out; but thought is irksome and three minutes is a long time. A.E. Housman
• The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about
• The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge. Elbert Hubbard
• The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding. Albert Camus
• Truthiness is 'What I say is right, and anyone else says could possibly be true.' It's not only that I feel it to be true, but that I feel it to be true. There's not only an emotional quality, but there's a selfish quality. Stephen Colbert
• Per a blog, "William Faulkner wryly commented, 'Facts and truth really don’t have much to do with each other.'" a blogger, about William Faulkner

Former CDPs

Thanks for the note — I'd not bothered checking whether that category existed or not, because (with New York's heavy population) I assumed that it existed. If you check Category:Former census-designated places, where I moved it after reading your note, you'll see that there are several state-level former CDP categories, but that Loudonville is the only New York one anywhere there. Nyttend (talk) 04:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Half Barnstar
		I award you, Camelbinky, the left half of this barnstar for your excellent combined efforts with doncram for work on Capital District-related articles as of late. Note that had you stayed in retirement, you never would have been able to receive this. :-) ~ ωαdεstεr16«talk 06:54, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Geobox

Other than getting the county Hunter Mountain is in wrong (it's Greene, not Columbia), you did OK. Daniel Case (talk) 02:19, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Generally I put footnotes in infoboxes as well, yes. Daniel Case (talk) 02:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Washington Park Statue ID

Hey, can you ID the statue in this photo? I was down there today to see the tulips, which won't be open during the Festival (it's been too warm here). Let me know. ~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk 23:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

You may prefer this one. ~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk 21:11, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

WPCD

Nice job! Simple yet effective way to do it. ~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk 22:30, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Rapp Road Community Historic District

On May 2, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Rapp Road Community Historic District, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 06:51, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

The DYK phrase, up now, is Did you know

• ... that during the First Great Migration, the majority of Shubuta, Mississippi, moved to Albany, New York, with some recreating a religious rural community in Rapp Road Community Historic District?

Hey, congratulations! doncram (talk) 10:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Capital District wikiproject invite

Thanks very much for the invite! I'll join the group. My time comes in bits and pieces so I'll help when I can. I appreciate the compliments and I'm glad you enjoyed the shopping center articles. Researching and writing them brought back a lot of memories. I'll hopefully get something up soon for the demolished Saratoga Mall/Pyramid Mall. Feel free to add any info from these shopping center articles to the capital district articles you mentioned. I'll also let you know and post in the group as I add new articles.

Also, in looking at your talk page, I want to say I very much agree with your points about the "verifiability" issue. Merely because something is posted in a periodical or other published work does not necessarily mean it is truthful. It could deliberately be wrong due to an agenda or it could accidentally be wrong due to misinformation or sloppy research. As an example, in researching these shopping center articles, there were numerous disagreements about when Northway Mall or Mohawk Mall opened. I would frequently see 1971 listed or even 1969. But, if I went back to the actual newspaper articles of that time, I could read the coverage of the openings of these malls, including the ads placed by their owners. Obviously, what I've just cited is merely sloppy research on the part of the reporter. On a more serious note, in doing research on historical politicians (1780s to 1820s), there was quite a bit of misinformation pro or con about these individuals in newspapers, with an obvious agenda. We have to seriously examine what is in the papers rather than blindly cite what is written. Common sense and striving for the truth are very important.Yx7791 (talk) 04:43, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Amen, brutha (or sista). ~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk 05:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

New Capital District Shopping Article

Hello, you asked me to let you know when I published a new CD article. Here is my latest: Saratoga Mall (Wilton, New York) Yx7791 (talk) 05:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi, glad you liked the Saratoga Mall article! I've got more to add to that as time permits, on things like the legal battle over sewer line access between Wilton and Saratoga Mall owners, more on the impact of the new mall, more tenants, etc. I'll probably also do an article on the successor Wilton Square as I did with Mohawk Commons. I used to shop a bit in that area. Wilton seemed like just the "typical mall" with chain stores while Saratoga had a flavor, particularly with allowing more local stores to be in a mall setting. It just seemed strange to locate Wilton Mall so close to Saratoga Mall. But, the same type of thing happened with Colonie Center and Northway Mall.Yx7791 (talk) 03:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I'm back. The last few days had been really busy. Good point about the competition issues. In the case of Saratoga Mall and Wilton Mall, the town probably didn't mind the extra tax revenue. Regarding the plaza with the new format of the Grand Union store, that's Colvin Central Plaza. Thanks also for the article about Aviation Mall. I'll take a look. I just partially finished an article on Stuyvesant Plaza. Once I get more time, I'll add the stores that moved in after 2000. There are about 700+ articles in the Times Union with the term "Stuyvesant Plaza" from 2000 on. There are 200 articles referencing SP from the Albany Business Review. Yx7791 (talk) 03:45, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I've begun an article in my sandbox area about Cohoes Commons today. I've only gotten up to 1989 and then the Times Union archives went down. But, there were not that many articles (compared to other malls) so I should be finished shortly after it gets fixed. http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Yx7791/Sandbox/Cohoes_Commons Yx7791 (talk) 21:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The Cohoes Commons entry is now complete. I hadn't heard of the Southgate Mall. I looked in newspaperarchive.com before my subscription expired (chose not to renew because it had problems delivering Troy content and had no Albany content) but couldn't find anything.

FYI, I've expanded the Mohawk Mall (Niskayuna, NY) article a bit. I've got a tenant list based on Times Union articles from 1986 onwards. I also expanded the Decline section. Yx7791 (talk) 01:17, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

FYI

I found this template, which is handy for formatting dates to user preferences. I use it everywhere now: {{Date}}. It's used as such: 6 May 2009. It also works in citations. ~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk 04:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Find use for images?

Hey, if I remember right, you went to UAlbany. Here's an image I can't really figure out how to use at University at Albany, SUNY. Maybe you'd know better?

• File:UAlbanyWeatherCenter.jpg

Thank you. ~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk 21:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Watervliet

New image; see here. wadester16 | Talk→ 01:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Images up

Here are some of the images you requested:

• Watervliet from the Congress Street Bridge
• Proctor's Theatre
• Schenectady City Hall (Front, but with poor lighting)
• Schenectady City Hall (Rear, but with good lighting)

wadester16 | Talk→ 18:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		I, Wadester16, award Camelbinky the Tireless Contributor Barnstar for his efforts at List of incorporated places in New York's Capital District, which is thorough, including images, and must have taken an insane amount of time to create and get right. wadester16 | Talk→ 05:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Shalom brother!

Thank you for that, that gives me some good ideas. I do know the founder of Reform Judaism (in full disclosure I am a Reform Jew) was originally a rabbi in Albany and when he first started his philosophy a riot actually broke out at the synagogue and in the street and the police were called out. The synagogue for Congregation Berith Sholom (the congregation I grew up in) in Troy is the oldest synagogue in continous use as a synagogue in the entire state. I guess those are two things I can add, the info with references are already on other articles, I just need to do a copy/paste job over to here. Oh, btw (and you can respond on my talk page since this is getting off the topic of the article) where is the synagogue for the Karaites in Albany? and I know many Jews (particularly Orthodox) dont acknowledge Karaites as full-members of the Jewish community has there been any contact or sharing of facilities or events between the Karaites and the large community of Jews in Albany? The Orthodox dont recognize Reform as "real Jews" either so we have that in common.Camelbinky (talk) 06:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Really interesting re: the history of the Reform movement in Albany. It would be great if you added that to the article. The Karaite synagogue is in downtown Albany. Actually, its website is the reference I added, and there's other information about it elsewhere on the Web. The Karaite community is very small and in my impression it is really held together by one person, Avraham Qanai. He seems to have been brought up Karaite, but a good number of the other Karaites were originally Rabbanite. I was actually raised Conservative Jewish, but I think many aspects of Rabbinic Judaism are actually over-interpretations. As one of many examples, I'm not convinced that "do not cook a kid in its mother's milk" means more than that (most other Rabbanites expand it to mean that all dairy and all meat should be separated, despite the prohibition against adding to the Torah). IMO, in Albany and elsewhere, there's just not enough Rabbanite contact with Karaites. I would like to see the Conservative, Reform and other liberal movements interpreting the text with more internal consistency, as Karaites attempt to do, and actually challenging Orthodox Judaism on theological grounds. It is unfortunate that some Orthodox Jews are so closed minded that they do not accept these other movements as Jewish, hence the riots. At least Reform Jews, Conservative Jews and Karaite Jews are allowed into Israel, we can be grateful for that.

By the way, if you would be interested in visiting the Karaite synagogue I suggest you contact the Hakham (somewhat equivalent of Rabbi) first. In imitation of the Holy Temple, the place is kept tahor (ritually pure) and there are a number of things you would need to do or not do before you enter. This is based on various passages in the Torah, and I'm actually trying to summarize these requirements as a short checklist. Supposedly it's typical of Karaite synagogues, but it's not something Rabbanites and especially Reform would be used to. As I said, this is also a relatively traditional Hakham who doesn't really seem to think about Karaite Judaism in relation to the Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist movements but is an open and welcoming person. --AFriedman (talk) 14:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

NYSR

Hi. Please keep in mind that if an article is tagged under NYSR, the WPNY tag is redundant, and thus unnecessary. Thanks, –Juliancolton |  20:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Realization

Just wanted to point out a recent realization: then → now = wow! wadester16 | Talk→ 20:42, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

County breakup graphic

I just made this, which should be overwritten by a higher quality SVG soon. Would you provide a source for this? If you want GA or FA for Capital District, this image will have to be sourced. Feel free to list it on the image page at Commons. Also, the dates of each county's creation (or split) would be nice to include in the graphic. Do you know this information? We can have it added when you find out. Also, please take a look at the caption I gave the graphic in the article; it lacks in many ways and could use some rewriting by you. Thanks sir. wadester16 05:41, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks (ref: Glens Falls talk)

Camelbinky, thank you for suggesting that I bring a discussion to the village pump. I'm not very familiar with what the pump is all about, but I'll be checking it out soon. --JBC3 (talk) 06:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The village pump is basically just where you ask a general question that just hasnt been addressed and has no policy or guideline to cover it and see what different editors have to say, there might not necessarily be a definitive answer but at least a good idea of where the community stands can be seen. I recommend bringing it to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)‎, the question does seem to be about policy even though your specific question is about one person in one article I would think the broad version of this question applies to just about every municipality/settlement article in English-language Misplaced Pages and I would bet there would be lots of comments and possible solutions and an answer may even end up being incorporated as a guideline or into a policy. Posting a mention of the discussion at the wikiproject cities might get some interested editors to come to the village pump to state their opinion. I've seen lots of good questions come up and to my surprise find out someone knows of a time when the question was already brought up and answered.Camelbinky (talk) 07:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I made an attempt at the village pump to bring this up. Check it out at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#Lists of people within articles and please contribute if you think I missed something or have a different perspective. --JBC3 (talk) 00:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Awesome post at the village pump today. Thanks for keeping the discussion going! --JBC3 (talk) 00:27, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Image

Here's that image from the Corning Tower you asked for:

• Port of Albany-Rensselaer from the Corning Tower

wadester16 22:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow, totally forgot about that! Thanks!Camelbinky (talk) 22:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Climate chart

Template:Climate chart/info: I kind of think it's better than Template:Infobox Weather. It's simpler and less obstructive. It lacks record lows and highs... but are they necessary? wadester16 02:55, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Looks good to me, I just simply copy/pasted the weather infobox from the Albany article for convenience. Is there a possibility that the chart can be set to imperial as default instead of metric?Camelbinky (talk) 03:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

It is in imperial. wadester16 00:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Capital District compilation image

You input would be appreciated. wadester16 04:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, it's done. What do you think? wadester16 00:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Perfect! Thank you!Camelbinky (talk) 01:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Housman quote = "Brilliant!!!!"

Hi Camelbinky,

No reason for this post except to say I stumbled across one of your posts and found this;

"Three minutes thought would suffice to find this out; but thought is irksome and three minutes is a long time."
-- A.E. Housman

And all I wanted to say was;

BRILLIANT!!!

I'm pinching it! :)

Regards, --Muzhogg (talk) 06:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah, yes. I see that list of quotations - top stuff. If I ever find a suitable one, I'll be sure to come back and add it in! Best, -- Muzhogg (talk) 08:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

NRHP article names

I think at WP:NRHP we have decided that if the property's common name is something other than what it's listed as, the article title should be the common title. But the list article should use the NPS name for consistency with the official document, with a pipe link or redirect to the actual article. And we use the listing title in the infobox hed.

Recent example I just did, from our region: The Village Diner, in Red Hook. That's the common name (see the website, or drive down Route 9 to it and see the sign out front). But it was listed as Halfway Diner, its original name and the one it used for about 40 years. So, the article has the current name, but the listing name in the infobox, and notes this in the lede.

My one exception to this is church articles. The NPS is forever, for accuracy's sake, listing churches with titles "St. Joe's Church Complex" or "Our Lady of the Blessed Sanctuary Church and Rectory". That's good for a list of recognized properties, where you include outbuildings in the listing, but you'd be surprised at the number of NRHP editors who have actually used these as article titles. I say, you only use that as the article title if that's what it says on the sign out front (i.e., never).

Now, to Washington Park: I think you can call that article, if you want to create it, Washington Park (Troy, New York). Make Washington Park Historic District (Troy, New York) a redirect to that article (i.e., by renaming it), and I think you're OK (consider that Chautauqua Institute is pretty much identical to the Chautauqua Institute National Historic Landmark District, so we don't have separate articles on them.

You might want to talk with Doncram about the NRHP naming conventions (such as they are). He's been the one most responsible for them. Daniel Case (talk) 21:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oops

Woops. I think you're misusing {{date}} instead of {{Date}}. Either way, don't use either. I thought {{Date}} formatted dates to a user's saved preferences, but it doesn't. And {{date}} creates the day's date. I found that in the "Urban decline and rise of the suburbs" section at Capital District, when I noticed the accessdates for all of the sources was today. My bad; just don't use the templates any more. wadester16 05:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Urban studies and planning project invite

Per your fine work on the Albany historic district articles, perhaps you'd be interested in listing yourself as a member at WP:USPL? You do seem to have some interests that would fit there. Daniel Case (talk) 01:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not OR

Not with the images involved. See WP:OI. Daniel Case (talk) 02:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that would be my interpretation. Daniel Case (talk) 04:00, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Rensselaerswyck expanded

Have a look. wadester16 17:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Historic districts and settlements

I'll reply to your questions here to so that we're not clogging up doncram's talk page. Even when historic districts cover the same area as a settlement or have the same boundaries as another area, I think each still merits its own article. While there is geographical overlap, there is much less time overlap. A settlement article should cover not just the history of the place but information on the economy, transport, education, geography, etc. Information about a historic district should be included in a summary style, but historic districts should have their own article to prevent the settlement article becoming too weighted towards the historic district. Articles on historic sites should have information about the history of the site, its relation to the surrounding area, possible interpretations of such sites to give context, and preservation amongst other things. While this could be summarised, for the settlement article stuff like providing context wouldn't be easy to add to the settlement article and it could be interpreted as digressing.

If there was no information that could not be included about an historic district in a settlement article then yes I would agree that it's fair to merge them. However, such information as I have listed above should always be available for each historic site. Unfortunately, most articles will remain stubs because there are so many of them, but at least having them flags to the reader that it needs expansion. The district should of course be mentioned in the history section of the settlement, but there should be scope for creation and expansion of an article on the district. I'm not sure of any articles that specifically fit these criteria, but I'm drawing on my experience of writing articles about settlements and listed buildings in England. There is usually a fair bit of information about such historic sites if you know where too look and if you add it too the settlement article it ends up clogging it up.

It of course needs to be judged on a case by case basis though. While I've made it clear that I believe every historic district merits its own article, others may of course disagree but I've explained my reasons. My problem on doncram's page was Orlady's confrontational comments. I believe doncram was justified in creating the article and that the provocative actions came from Orlady. Nev1 (talk) 18:21, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I like your answers and they have swayed me to agree, for the most part, with your opinion. I do have this one issue though- you seem to be wanting the history section of a settlement article to be no more than a summary of the history of the settlement. I am biased in my opinion in that I focus on history sections of settlements, but my opinion is that history sections on settlements should be as detailed as possible, and if they get too long then that is why they get split off as their own article and THEN a summarized version is put in the settlement article with a hatnote on the section directing people to the history article of the settlement. I dont think this means there is any conflict with the idea of having separate historical district articles since for settlements that have such a large history they are most likely going to be of such size that there are multiple districts in the settlement and therefore the historic district articles will not be geographically the same as the full settlement and therefore can go into details that might not be relevant or notable enough for the full settlement article history.Camelbinky (talk) 20:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Albanian

I used it to avoid confusion with these people. Daniel Case (talk) 02:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

48 Hudson Ave

I'll assume that you mean the Hudson Ave in downtown. Ironically, there is another Hudson Ave off Central far from downtown. But 48 isn't registered by Google Maps. Is the address correct? wadester16 00:04, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the one in downtown near the bus station (the one downtown, the one in Pine Hills, and the one in Hudson/Park & Center Sq. are all technically the same street, just disconnected due to topography, but the house numbering continues as if it was just one long street and the unbuilt area really did have lots). 48 Hudson Ave shows up in Mapquest I dont know why Google would not. I've never really used Google maps.Camelbinky (talk) 00:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I just clicked on the link you have in your post for Google maps and it showed up the correct 48 Hudson AveCamelbinky (talk) 00:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Arthur Cravan

Nice reply - thanks! Finding the actual source for that Cravan had been lost at sea and most likely drowned took just five minutes at the university library here, but the business of keeping it in long term seemed to tie in with many other considerations (I only thought it over after I'd edited the article...) I guess I'm not the only one who has felt harassed sometimes by overfussy editors, or people with an agenda, who just don't know much about the stuff they edit, but sure know how to use WP rules ("no original research!" "this is not relevant")~sighs~.Strausszek (talk) 23:53, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Do you know anything about this?

I'm doing a rewrite of Kiliaen van Rensselaer (merchant) (sandbox at User:Wadester16/Kiliaen) and I'm having a hard time figuring out his birth and death years. See the sandbox, where I include notes (ref 1 and 3) regarding the disagreement on these years. Do you know anything about these or have better sources? wadester16 18:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Not off the top of my head, but I will definitely spend time looking into it until I have an answer (or come to the conclusion there is no right answer!). Someone you may want to contact, if he is still editing, is user:djflem, he's an expert on New Netherland history articles and may have an answer for you quicker than we can find online.Camelbinky (talk) 01:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Other than the sources you have already found, I have found this which at least allows you to cite one source that outright says there is some uncertainty about Kil's death along with a no latter than and "as early as" date, it though seems quite certain of the year of his birth. I have, if Google Books is correct about the publication date, found a book written by Kil in 1643 (which could still have been his date of death though), no preview is available for the book and the title is in Latin. I will continue to search, though looking at the sources you give I would personally have more trust in Reynolds and Van Rensselaer as to a date of death. I havent looked into birth yet, working on death first as I assumed death would be an event more likely to be recorded and kept in the in safekeeping in the US than his date of birth in Amsterdam for which the records might not be around anymore as he wasnt notable at the time of his birth but he def. was notable when he died. I'm tracking down any primary sources from that are contemporary with his death right now.Camelbinky (talk) 01:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll chat with that user. I don't know how I feel about the source since they say the patroonship bounced straight to Jeremias, which isn't the case. See Template:RensselaerswyckPatroons. wadester16 04:27, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Talkback from JBC3

Requested images

Here's the images you requested:

• 48 Hudson Avenue: Sorry, it currently has scaffolding and not much says that it's very old
• Quackenbush House: Not sure if this is the right building. I had to narrow it down and this seemed the best option near those coordinates. On the side, it said it was on the NRHP. But, in stone on the front facade, it's called the "Pieter Schuyler Building" (you can see that in front of the black SUV)

wadester16 02:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

48 Hudson Ave is fine, I knew from the discription that it had scaffolding, but I just thought a photo now would be good anyways, in case the plans for the convention center really do include renovating it, which I am led to believe they do. The problem with the Albany Historic Foundation's quote is that they say the believe "parts of the building" are older than the Quackenbush, from that I have no clue how much or what parts have been changed over 350 years.

• The other building is not the Quackenbush House, that building is too far south and wrongside of the street, when I lived in Albany I believe it was occupied by a law firm. The Quackenbush House is on Broadway opposite the Federal Building, east side of the street, at the bottom of Clinton Ave. At the Quackenbush House article is an old photo of what the building looked like, it still looks the same, but will have a Nicole's Bistro sign on the building, and the buildings to the right (south) in the photo are gone, now it is the off ramp from I-787. If you can get a similar angle to show that difference, that would be great, but obviously cant ask you stand in the middle of the street or anything with traffic! There are other historic buildings/things in that area, east from the Quackenbush House is the Albany Pump Station (now a restaurant/pub), a NRHP building I believe. I can try and find info on the Pieter Schuyler Building and see if there's anything special, it is a beautiful building.

Thank you for your hard work! Hope you didnt go to far out of your way that day. Take your time geting a Quackenbush House photo. Maybe there will be more places in that general area to take a photo of before you go back out, I would hate for you to go just for one building.Camelbinky (talk) 16:04, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm hopping around Albany all the time for photos now, so it's no big deal. I was going by the coordinates on the article page. Can you update them so they are more accurate? It is a good block and a half south of Exit 4. wadester16 18:35, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll find the coordinates, I guess Wikimapia is probably a good place to look.Camelbinky (talk) 21:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Quackenbush House

You're going to want to look over this. wadester16 22:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I like the photos, but I believe it was Daniel Case who once said there may be copyright problems with photos of historic markers and signs, so you may want to ask him about that, I probably misunderstood. However that sign does seem to be from the 1970s, so I wouldnt trust it as to which building is currently the oldest. Though I will be holding off on any info on 48 Hudson until any renovation of it turns up a definitive declaration, which I have found more evidence that the Convention Center Authority does indeed plan on renovating it and turning into some sort of museum. Use whichever photo of the building you like the most for the article. And since you were just there, can you verify that the restaurant name has changed from Nicole's Bistro to the name currently mentioned in the article? I thought it kind of a strange name if true, it translates as "The Chained Duck" and I'm pretty sure that is also the name of a satirical newspaper.Camelbinky (talk) 00:36, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Albany streets list article

Yeah, I certainly think it could be something we could do. Albany's about as large as Hamilton, plus it's a state capital city to boot. It would be notable enough. Daniel Case (talk) 12:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Assessment request

Would you mind assessing Charter of Freedoms and Exemptions? wadester16 21:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I can do that right now.Camelbinky (talk) 21:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Irbisgreif (talk) 23:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Pump reply on Jeopardy! stuff

Thanks for the reply. I actually didn't realize those Champions lists were already on the pages, I probably will split those off. The real question, though, is whether the other two lists of total and single-day winnings are notable enough. I'd say yes (given proper limitations, like the 50k for total and 30k for single day that the official page provides), but I want outside opinions before creating. Staxringold _talk 00:23, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Central Troy Historic District GA

Well, Wade got there first. But you're just as welcome.

OK, so in order to take it to FA I am hoping you can get me some of those early '70s sources (don't have to be online) that you talked about in PR. Or perhaps I should get my own butt up to Troy again eventually. Daniel Case (talk) 21:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Map of Rensselaerswyck

Care to have a read of Map of Rensselaerswyck for me? Do you by any chance know what Smackx Island is? Oh and if you're interested. wadester16 23:37, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

• I would love to read your article, I loved the one you did on the charter of freedoms etc. Smackx Island...not of the top of my head, is there a place I could see a good image of the map itself? Chances are I could identify it from the map itself easier than from a name. The Hudson is full of islands that have since been filled in on one side and no longer exist on traditional maps such as road atlases, mapquest, etc; but NYSDOT and USGS maps often still refer to their locations (I've done articles on two such islands, Westerlo Island and Van Rensselaer Island). I have gone ahead and voted support for Zoofari, I have enjoyed his work and benefitted from it, so this was the least I could do to repay all his hard work. I'm glad you brought it to my attention, pass on my well-wishes.Camelbinky (talk) 23:58, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
  • The image in the infobox is high-res and Smackx Island is clearly labeled. wadester16 00:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I've read your article and have three questions and one request-

• should it be States General or States-General?
• rixdollars? is there a way to wikify that or footnote it with an explanation of just how much a rixdollar is?
• Albert Dieter(whatever) was the "commis" of Fort Orange...possible to wikify term or explain for laymen?
• and the request I have is- can you wikilink the first mention of de Laets Island to Van Rensselaer Island (more of an ego-trip for me since I'm the one that created the article).

I will go back and look at the high-res map and check out Smackx Island though from the description of it being north of Beerens and at the endpoint of the first purchase I already have my suspicions, should have an answer within an hour.Camelbinky (talk) 00:13, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done wadester16 00:21, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

WOW! This is a tough one. Ok... my best possible answer, for now, is that it is either Bear Island or Campbells Island. I have correctly identified the three islands between Beeren and Smacx as Shad, Schermerhorn, and Poplar; and have identified Renselaersburg as Castle Island, and the large island directly east Godyns Island is Papsacanee Island, which today they are fully joined together and are a peninsula not an island (and also they are a state park). This narrowed the section of river down to search. Bear Island does (or did) have a stream entering the Hudson at its north end and is along the western bank as the Map of Rensselaerswyck shows, though Campbell Island does (or did) match the size and shape better but is in real life much closer to the eastern bank. Should you be able to identify the kill entering the Hudson at the south end of Smackx Island as the Vloman Kill (previously spelled other ways, perhaps Vlouman back then), then I would say Campbell would be a better bet. Since that section of the map does not show the coastline and islands that real do/did exist back then on the eastern section as well as it does for the eastern section I would say we shouldnt take for granted that the island is truly as west as the map shows. For now Campbell Island is the best I can give. here is the best link for checking some of the info out I have provided.Camelbinky (talk) 00:53, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not really worried about identifying these things more than already, unless you're already sure. I don't want to make assumptions about the map considering it was hand drawn and could be vastly wrong. I'd kind of like to bring this to GAN, but worry that the "based solely on one source" part will kill me. Plus it's basically copy+pasted from the source, which is legal (PD), but not really impressive. wadester16 01:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

←Do you have a source that specifically says that de Laet's Island was later renamed Van Rensselaer's Island, so I can source note d? wadester16 01:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

You may also want to take a cool at this and comment on how things are going. Take into account this as well when referencing van Rensselaers; I've been creating some articles too. wadester16 01:25, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Reference number 5 in the Van Rensselaer Island article is the source for Van Rensselaer Island originally being de Laet's Island, also another reference used in that article states it more clearly but is possibly not as reliable a source as it is the website promoting the commercial/residential development named "de Laet's Landing" on the island. Also I believe some of the other sources used in that article mention it as well, if not all of them.Camelbinky (talk) 01:51, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I looked at number 5, but it only says that Kiliaen named it for de Laet. It doesn't say that the name changed from de Laet to van Rensselaer. wadester16 01:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Page 6 of reference number 1 lists all the former names of the island, including de Laet's and Van Rensselaer (along with a few others).Camelbinky (talk) 02:08, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Huta Pieniacka massacre

Have you chcked the refs

• ref 1 appears to be a ukranian forum ?
• ref 2 is to a googl book review
• ref 3 has two big errors there was no 14th sub unit or 4th regiment so what make the rest of the site reliable
• ref 5 is to a dead external site
• ref 8 is a google book search that reveals it was another ss division responsible
• ref 10 is to a dead external site

All the other refs are a foreign language but if they are the same as above there credability is in some doubt --Jim Sweeney (talk) 21:49, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I will have to check them in detail when I have time, as for the two dead links, being a dead link does not make it wrong, as long as the reference citation lists the accessdate we must assume good faith and believe that the link did say what it is referencing at the time of the accessdate. It doesnt delegitimize the reference. For the one that has two big errors that does not make it unreliable for everything else, that would be something that would have to be looked into. The rest I would have to check. You can site books that are on Google book, I would have to check to see if you are refering to them citing the actual book that is on google books or some sort of reviewer's opinions. The Ukrainian forum would be out unless it is by experts only and it can be verified that only experts can post. Always best to discuss on a talk page first why you want to remove something, you may want to check the discussion on the Reliable sources/noticeboard a discussion was started there regarding this issue.Camelbinky (talk) 22:21, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Give this a read-through, will you?

Kiliaen van Rensselaer (Dutch merchant) has gone live. Go through it when you get some time? Took an initial look at the history of town creation. I like the idea, but the setup is quite awkward. I don't mean to sound mean, but the way it's done just doesn't present well; the content, on the other hand, is great. Maybe you could use Template:Familytree. It can be difficult to use, but it looks great. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 22:37, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I didnt take it as sounding mean, we are here for the same reason to make the articles better, I always appreciate your input, you've made just about every article I've ever worked on better with your input, I can always trust you to be honest. I know the format is awkward, the problem is that when put in a family tree format of any kind there is a problem with the fact that town creation is hard to draw because it is so "inbred", for the lack of a better word; towns creating new towns with their own "parents" or "grandparents". I had checked out template:Familytree when deciding on what format to use, the only question/possible problem with using that would be in those cases that three towns contributed to a new town, I am not sure if that template would be able to diagram that as the template was designed for a mom-pop-children type of diagram and probably the creators did not envision three parents. I will practice with it and see what I can do maybe there is a way to represent three parents. I'm glad you like the content, the current format does disappoint me and actually saddens me so I know what you mean when you say it doesnt present well. I've been watching your article for some time now and will take a detailed look now, as I could use a nice distraction from what I was working on, the (Dongan Charter, was thinking I could write out the entire charter in the article then I realized that what I had down so far was one page out of over 20! So I'll have to figure something else out!) :-(Camelbinky (talk) 22:49, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't put the full text on Misplaced Pages, put it on Wikisource. And when/if you create the article in Wikisource, make sure to name it so it can't be confused with the Dongan Charter of NYC. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 22:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I dont think I've ever used Wikisource, I'll have to give that a try, thank you!Camelbinky (talk) 22:56, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I hadn't either until I started working on Kiliaen. You'll note all the Wikisource references I used; I created them all. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 23:00, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

One quick problem I might have, and it might be a problem carried over from the source you got it from is from this paragraph-

• Before the Eighty Years' War began, people realized that the West Indies trade might bring great prosperity to the country and that more power might be developed against Spain. Rather than travel to the area singly within an armed ship or in the company of a few other vessels, traders could do business in the manner of the large and prosperous East India Company. A company for carrying on commerce in the West Indies, Africa, and Australia could be organized, which might, like the sister company, act as the war-waging power in those parts and be supported by the treasury, ships, and troops of the United Netherlands.

The problem being that when the Eighty Years' War began Australia hadnt yet been discovered by the Dutch (or anyone else except the Aborigines, and some Indonesian fishermen) I dont know if that is a big enough wording issue to really worry about, but you may want to look into it and see what you think?Camelbinky (talk) 23:17, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I just finished, I made a change adding a non-breaking space to keep the last word of a sentence with the citation and I corrected what I think was a spelling error (excercised to exercised). I have three questions though-

• Is it possible to show how much the various money amounts given in florins and guilders are in dollars? If not, that's ok, I know there may not be a reliable conversion rate out there for it.
• Possible to show conversion of the amount of land given in bunders is in acres or hectares?
• His first wife Hillegonda, she is the neice of his uncle...was she and Kilean therefore cousins by blood (making them first cousins and therefore incest) or was this where she was the wife's neice and he was the husband's nephew type of deal? (or otherway around or some other combination of marriage and nothing to do with blood-relation).Camelbinky (talk) 23:48, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Will check in on those questions. I won't be able to do much with the currencies (btw guilder and florin are apparently identical, based on my readings). There's a story about the bunder; I'll try to include that. I'll check up on the incest issue. upstateNYer 19:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Featured x candidates (Regarding withdrawal)

It appears WP:Revoke provides a cogent compromise between your views and the others, no? The editor in question can "leave" and continue developing content elsewhere. The only thing that can't be undone is the content already submitted, which is essentially already in the wild, even if somehow it was removed from wikipedia. I'm not reading anything asserting to be like a encyclopedia Non-compete clause, where wikipedia has some right to the future work, or would have any basis to prevent the article from being developed in an alternative forum. Cheers! Cander0000 (talk) 06:35, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Review request

Would you mind doing a read-through of User:Eliphaletnott/Union College? This is a brand new rewrite of Union College written mostly by the college's librarian, with some help from his staff and students. I think it's really good, but we need a few fresh pairs of eyes to go through it before going live. Have any interest? upstateNYer 19:37, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Sure I'll do that right now. If it hasnt been done already the librarian should put a disclaimer/notification on the finished Union College talk page after the switch over to the new re-write detailing his staff position and just keeping out in the open what may be considered a conflict-of-interest, though I'm sure if you have already looked it you wouldve noticed any bias, but it is always better to be honest and open on these things. That way it doesnt look like a "scandal" if someone later has a dispute with something in the article and then finds on mine or your talk page this mentioning of it being written by the college's librarian.Camelbinky (talk) 20:23, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

That unfortunately comes down to privacy issues. This was written pretty well and very neutrally. I don't think that's necessary (WP:IAR if we must). upstateNYer 20:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

True, you are very wise indeed Obi-van-Kenobi.Camelbinky (talk) 21:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Albany Union Station move

Done. Daniel Case (talk) 20:04, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Obama visit

This could be a great addition to Capital District, assuming he says something positive about our local economy and tech valley. Read recently that Global Foundries is the largest project currently on track in the United States. Very notable to include in Economy that we were relatively successful during a hard time and have one of the best community colleges in the country. I'd wait to the speech is done though. upstateNYer 23:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I saw the headline but didnt read that article this morning, but now that I've read it I'm really glad you made me read it. Definitely a plus to add once more information comes in and President Obama visits. I can believe that its the largest project in the US, thousands of workers will be building it and its the only chip fab plant being built in the US right now (and none are even planned, so its not like we just got lucky and started first). Fabs are like the holy grail of regional economic planning, everyone wants one. I've been thinking of starting a Tech Valley article as well, since the Capital District article is already damn near, if not already over the suggested article size. A Tech Valley article could be more in-depth on these types of things. Unfortunately it includes Plattsburgh in the north and the IBM plants/HQ down in East Fishkill, areas I am not that familar with, anything north of Ticonderoga or south of Hudson I get uncomfortable with writting about because I have rarely, if ever, visited anything beyond them, but I can always research online and learn without physically ever going someplace (though it really bugs me to do that!).Camelbinky (talk) 03:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Albany/Schenectady border

Do you have a source for the fact that Albany and Schenectady counties' border is set from the old border of Rensselaerswyck? I can't remember if you did or not, but it would be helpful. upstateNYer 00:00, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I did but I cant remember if I put it on your talk page or mine, but I believe it was posted on your talk page. If you cant find it do a search on Google Books for the New York state laws for 1809 and in the book that has that year's laws do a search for "Schenectady County", and there will be the actual law setting forth the creation of Schenectady county and the borders will be given, they arent very exact but they do mention that the border goes along the old Rensselaerwyck border, and as far as I know Schenectady and Albany counties have not had any land swaps or annexations from each other since they separated. The creation of Niskayuna as a town from Watervliet is in the same book (same year 1809), possibly even in the same law as the creation of Schenectady County, it also mentions the Rensselaerwyck border if I remember correctly. The 1860 Gazetteer of the State of New York by JH French (also on Google Books) also mentions it I believe. The Timeline of town creation in New York's Capital District has the source you should need for the 1809 law, but I cant remember which one is the one you need for 1809.Camelbinky (talk) 02:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: Road terminology

I don't want to say yes, because I use those words, but don't conform to that document. The better person to ask is User:TwinsMetsFan. I assume you are referring to finishing the Round Lake Bypass (NY 915J).Mitch32 09:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I was in really bad mood, but going by previous decisions. Anyway, be my guest.Mitch32 01:21, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

DP76764

Thank You for your comments on the Stephen Colbert_(character) page. It has been hard to add info to the page as DP76764 assertion that the show is not a source has repeatably come up before. Outback the koala (talk) 05:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

removal of content

hello, i see that you removed content from the ANI topic User:Ivankinsman_systemic_copyright_vio, per this. please refrain from doing so without stating a reason in your summary, especially on ANI. it may appear to be vandalism. I may also be wrong advising you now, if it happens to be, please feel free to point out. Ecoman24 (talk page) 23:13, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Dude, I dont know what you are talking about, I posted to the thread above and had nothing to do with the next thread. There was an edit conflict and that may have messed things up when I copy/pasted from the "your version" to the "stored version" I have always had a problem with the edit conflict page that pops up. If something got misplaced or erased it was an accident. Posting on my talk page is useless, I'm retiring and think dumb things like your post on my talk page dont help. Yes you were wrongly advising me right now. Sorry I'm being an ass, but I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of my account so there's nothing remaining at all.Camelbinky (talk) 01:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I ve understood everything you have said. Please, don't retire. you are a very good editor. You will always come across criticisms. just understand that you will never meet most of these people who negatively criticize you. after all, they don't decide what you eat, where you go in life. so, just ignore every negative comment they make. sometime back, i was forced to retire by a wikistalker. now i ve learned to ignore negative criticisms. hope you stay my friend. Ecoman24 (talk page) 10:47, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Quitting would be over-reacting

Hi, Camelbinky --

Your gratitude to me may be misplaced. I didn't restore the Public Library section in Albany, New York -- it never was deleted. (All I did was fix a typo I noticed.) Hippo only removed the part about the change to the library classification system.

Please reconsider your decision to quit -- or at least sleep on it. After another day or two, I think this will look pretty inconsequential. --Orlady (talk) 23:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I see from your last post on my talk page that your AN/I issue was more about the history than about the immediate problem of the Albany public library info. However, the issued you described there was solely about that the incident of the Albany library info, so that's what the rest of us responded to.

I don't doubt that you've had some rough times with Hippo43 (and I recall some of the earlier events), but those rough times have not prevented you from making many valuable contributions, and I hope you can continue. Illegitimi non carborundum.

And next time you are concerned more about past history than the current incident, provide diffs to document that history. --Orlady (talk) 18:17, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Albany

To be honest, I think Hippo has a valid point... the stuff you added on the library system does strike me as being irrelevant information in an article about the city in general. Sorry. Blueboar (talk) 00:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Let's not do this again

I don't really have an opinion on your AN/I posting (other than that AN/I was probably not the best place to go first), but retiring again will not be good for this project. You've added so much great content to this place and offered this area so much information, it's almost unbelievable. Who would be dedicated enough to make, fix, and maintain Timeline of town creation in New York's Capital District, other than you? Who else could bring Port of Albany-Rensselaer to GA? You are one of the major reasons why WP:CAPDIS has been so successful, being one of its most dedicated editors. Don't let a minor scuffle with another editor cause you such strife. It's not really a big deal and in a few days it won't matter to you much anyway. I've been waiting to see where you'll bring Dongan Charter, because it's so important to our history and has so much potential. Maybe you'll reconsider? upstateNYer 14:53, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Review request

I just finished an overhaul of Oakwood Cemetery (Troy, New York). Would you mind reading it through for me, and letting me know what you think? Leave comments on the talk, if you would please. Thanks. upstateNYer 05:55, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Civility and bad faith

Much of what you wrote on the talk page for Policies_and_guidelines struck me as not following WP:CIVIL. I'm not worried personally by it but it was quite long with practically zero content as far as I could see, other people might react quite badly to all the shouting etc though. The thing I found of more concern was your last statement "Bad faith when people take their issues to multiple locations trying to find more people who view the same as them and bring them here". It has been my experience that when people accuse others of something they are very often engaged in it themselves so I had a look. And sure enough I found you posting this to User talk:Kim Bruning#Policies and guidelines

"I was wondering if you would be willing to back inclusion of the phrase "policies are descriptive of our common practices, not prescriptive procedures" as a short and sweet addition in replace of the sentence currently in the article stating they should be adhered to and "used by all editors". And if you agree to further perhaps stating that IAR is the overriding policy at the end of the paragraph.Camelbinky (talk) 22:04, 15 October 2009 (UTC)"

I think you should consider whether this is 'bad faith' on your part like you allege. Personally I believe you should have posted such a request on the talk page of IAR instead so those interested in that policy would see it whether they agreed with you in general or not. Dmcq (talk) 00:03, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

The reason I went to Kim's talk page was because she had already posted in opposition to you. She was there first, then I went to her talk page. What I was against was your going to the IAR page with your erroneous beliefs that rules in Misplaced Pages=Laws. I was not uncivil, in fact I have extended to you much more good faith and civility than most would. "Uncivil" claims are often the last resort of someone who doesnt like that someone continues to call them out on their beliefs when those beliefs are wrong. I am sorry, but again please read our policies regarding what policies are. You can choose not to believe wp:notstatute but it is still there and it is clear. You are in the minority. I am not responding to you anymore here, or anywhere else. I no longer take you serious. If you find that "uncivil", fine, take up a complaint; Kim and others including myself have pointed out to you that your belief in "law" is wrong for Misplaced Pages. There is nothing more to say in this conversation. Calling you out on that point is not uncivil, refusing to have further discussion with you is not uncivil. In fact I am walking away specifically so I am not uncivil. I've simply had enough with you and dont wish to have any more contact. Thanks, for voicing your concerns, I take them at what value they are, and ask you dont contact me again. Sorry if you take this as uncivil, but it is my right and my choice as an editor to have contact and discuss with whom I want when I want. Any further posting on my talk page is only going to get undone and in fact this discussion will be deleted in a day anyways.Camelbinky (talk) 00:27, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

So what exactly was the point of going to to Kim's page? Dmcq (talk) 00:36, 18 October 2009 (UTC)