Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Whaleto (talk | contribs) at 17:15, 21 December 2005 (→Rare, Mild etc). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

"PRINCIPAL POINT ON PREVENTION"

NOTE TO WHOEVER KEEPS EDITING THIS INFORMATION OUT AND RELEGATING IT:- It is fundamental and the most important information that as mumps is a mild illness in children in developed economies preventive measures are not necessary for them. It is further fundamental factual information that the British Medical Association and Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain actively recommended against mumps vaccination based on clinical factors. They then changed that recommendation only when it went against government policy with the introduction of MMR in 1988 into Great Britain.

this is an assertion that events in 1988 caused events in 1987. Midgley 01:39, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

For the vast majority of children mumps vaccination is a clinically unnecessary invasive medical procedure.

Further, the mass vaccination programmes are driven by the World Health Organisation, which, although meant to be nominally part of the United Nations organisation is heavily influenced directly by the pharmaceutical industry. WHO's policies on disease eradication are not debated in any western democracy nor voted on. Further, the concept of disease eradication is a misnomer as scientific study of the extensive disease statistics demonstrate from countries like the UK, USA and Australia stretching back of the order of 200 years. In particular, the trends in mortality from numerous diseases was steadily dramatically and inexorably down without vaccination over the relevant periods. It was coincidental with improved quality of drinking water, nutrition and living conditions. Mortality fell from very high percentages of population over these periods to very low levels.

It is unscientific and factually incorrect to ascribe improved disease mortality to vaccination when disease mortality was falling dramatically of its own without vaccination and the figures demonstrate in numerous cases over 200 years that mortality continued to fall at the same rates after the introduction of vaccinations in many cases.

Further, this clear and incontrovertible evidence shows that the ravages of disease in less developed economies would similarly improve just as dramatically with improved quality of drinking water, nutrition and living conditions. Vaccination does nothing in that regard and can be shown to have serious consequences for the malnourished, sick and immunocompromised, which is frequently what children in very poor circumstances can be.

We in western developed nations use vaccination as a conscience improver to demonstrate how humanitarian we are in supposedly 'eradicating' disease when we are instead keeping the people concerned in poverty through our political and economic policies and those diseases were being eradicated by other means.

Accordingly, the following text has been restored:- "As mumps is a mild illness in children in developed economies preventive measures are not necessary for them. Some paediatricians recommend vaccination against mumps where such children have not contracted the disease naturally by the age of 9.

The British Medical Association and Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain actively recommended against general mumps vaccination (see further below). They then changed that recommendation in 1987 when it became United Kingdom government policy in 1988 to introduce mass child mumps vaccination programmes with the MMR vaccine."

Further editing to restore the sense of the BMA recommendations have also been made. If anyone wishes to amend those changes, I expect to see that noted and justified so that others can follow the logic or otherwise of those making the changes.

Anon The Editor. 08:30 17 August 2005 GMT

"MMR immunization (vaccine) protects against measles, mumps and rubella and should be given to children 15 months old."

This paragraph should probably include a note about the MMR controversy so as not to appear medically POV. Lee M 01:21, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

What, the "controversy" where people fantasize without evidence that it's linked to autism? That's not a medical point of view.- Nunh-huh 08:25, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think most of the fuss about it was here in the UK, but MMR is a wikilink to the MMR article, which has comprehensive information, so I think that should be sufficent for anyone interested in the topic. akaDruid 10:37, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Just for completeness, can someone confirm it can affect the thyroid too? When I had mumps, it affected both parotids (first one side then the other), and, then, it supposedly affected the thyroid (or so concluded the doctor, as I got a swollen neck much like goitre). It didn't leave any long-term effects on thyroid regulation, though. Qvantamon 08:14, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it can cause swelling in the thyroid, the pancreas, and other glandular tissue. - Nunh-huh 08:25, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Bursting Ovaries

This recent addition deleted:-

"Women are at risk of ovarian swelling and possibly bursting. Women with the mumps should have abdominal pain closely monitored because the ovaries are at risk of bursting."

Proper medical references are required generally for this page but this particular recent addition especially needs a proper reference. It refers to something that does not seem to be in the normal literature about risks of mumps - this is an alleged complication that appears to have no basis in reality, according to what seems to be accepted medical knowledge. It is highly unlikely that an ovary would 'burst'. Eggs from ovaries will commonly be described as 'bursting' from an ovary in the normal course of ovulation. --Anon The Editor 21:28, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Prevention

I noticed that there is no mention made of avoiding contact with an infected person's saliva (from coughing and sneezing). I think that might be worth noting.

CAUSES AND RISKS

As currently stated this is not accurate and POV. It fails to deal with the risks being minimal to non-existent and makes the symptoms sound worse than they are. There is no balance here. 81.111.172.198 14:51, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't see the article doing that, or being out of line with other sources. From the article: Mumps is generally a mild illness in children... and, Orchitis (swelling of the testes) occurs in 10-20% of infected males, but sterility only rarely ensues (And that's "rare" among an already small percentage of what itself isn't serious.) a viral meningitis occurs in about 5% of those infected Any of the things it says can happen, it does not list as common. Other sources on the subject make similar statements:

Medicinenet: : Mumps can cause inflammation of tissues other than the salivary glands. Most frequently, the covering and substance of the central nervous system are inflamed causing meningoencephalitis. The pancreas is another target organ resulting in pancreatitis. Especially after adolescence, mumps tends to affect the ovary (oophoritis) and the testis (orchitis). The mature testis is particularly susceptible to damage from mumps which can lead to infertility.

Webmd : In children, mumps is generally a mild illness, and complications are rare. When complications develop, they may include: (similar list of symptoms to wikipedia article). Adults infected with mumps often have more severe symptoms and are more likely to develop complications than children. However, long-lasting problems from complications are rare. Indium 05:20, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

The edit of this section at 20:42 on 19 November 2005 by user Nunh-huh is unusual. An edit which added balance to an unbalanced POV section was deleted on a basis that is not valid (stating "a page really can't cite itself....").

Further, the section has now been edited in a manner which will give the casual and the lay reader an unbalanced understanding of the risks of mumps, which are rare. It is not clear why this section continues to be edited in this manner. It is not clear why the valid edit was deleted.

Perhaps User Nunh-huh would be so kind as to explain? 81.111.172.198 17:38, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

What's unusual is beginning an article with a long quote. Your version says nothing different than what was already there, it just moves it up to the top. There's no imbalance here. - Nunh-huh 19:45, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

So what is the "causes" section now embellished with a {{sectNPOV}} tag? I have rewritten the intro with original material which explains that adults are more at risk for complications than children, which is true. I have also mentioned infertility, because although rare this is understandably a major issue for most of our readers. I think it would be strange to tone down this article more than necessary. If there are figures available, why hide them? I think a publically acceptable number needed to treat to prevent a case of infertility is very high. JFW | T@lk 22:05, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Why make a mild illness appear serious when it is not? 81.111.172.198 22:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

That is not an adequate description of my edit. I clearly stated that it is a mild illness with symptoms somewhat more severe in adolescents and grownups. Would you consider it a mild illness if you'd be unable to have children as a result? JFW | T@lk 00:41, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Given that you've sprinkled NPOV tags everywhere, could you state clearly which parts of the article you don't agree with? This will facilitate discussion, and enable us to reach consensus on how some things should be phrased. This does not mean that useful statistics will be removed because they sound uncomfortable to you. JFW | T@lk 00:47, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

It seems certain Users (you, Nunh-huh, Geni and it will become clearer as time passes how many others) revert valid edits which accurately describe disease risks and make pages describing mild illnesses like mumps as if they are really serious illnesses. In such circumstances it would assist if you could please explain how you believe "consensus" could be achieved?

In your particular case you have deleted text proposed not by me but by a different user and that is text which came from a medical source, with a reference and which accurately describes in a neat convenient manner the main point most people, including parents like me, want and need to know about mumps. You deleted the text and replaced it with text which is just plain wrong, without a reference, which is your own wording and you did it because, as you admit yourself in your personal point of view you believe it was "better than external quote".

I note that Nunh-huh added an edit to "Prevention" that claims "Anti-vaccine activists disagree." (Revision as of 21:54, 31 August 2005) which explains where you folks are coming from. Why do none of you want ordinary people to have accurate information about childhood diseases? What is your motivation? It needs to be explained because you are claiming to seek consensus but you and the others indicate that is not what is really wanted. 81.111.172.198 07:35, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I asked you which sections you disagree with on a factual basis. Why are you referring to User:Geni? This user has not edited this page for a long time. Or are you simply seeking out people who have disagreed with you on your anti-vaccine quest (your contibutions are generally in that vein). Again, you are obviously trying to downplay mumps to justify an anti-vaccine stance. Unless you can state specifically what parts you disagree with we are no closer to finding a good format for this article.

The quote I removed was (1) in the intro, (2) cherry-picked by yourself. JFW | T@lk 08:10, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

For details of my responses please see

]

81.111.172.198 18:15, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Which may be summarized as "81.111.172.198 will cite no sources". - Nunh-huh 00:26, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Kindly ignore this vandalism and for details of my responses please see:-

]

81.111.172.198 07:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Which may be summarized as "81.111.172.198 will cite no sources". - Nunh-huh 00:26, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Kindly ignore this vandalism and for details of my responses please see:-

]

81.111.172.198 07:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Or not. - Nunh-huh 08:31, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I have to agree with 198 that mumps has been made more serious by the vaccine sellers, this is just good marketing, the same happens with measles, smallpox (considered less dangerous than measles in late 1800's), and the rest, chickenpox being the latest. The mumps vaccine isn't safe or effective as proven when the last MMR vaccine was withdrawn due to the mumps portion, Urabe which is still being sold, and they admitted the Rubini strain was completely useless, and they used that for years. Then there are plenty of studies and opinions from non-vaccinator medical doctors and other doctors that mumps is beneficial and safe when handled properly, eg with vitamin C. 86.128.92.75 19:56, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

UK and BMA

I'm a UK doctor and a BMA member and I will enquire what the progression of opinion was, and why. It is worth pointing out that all the doctors involved in making UK immunisation policy were BMA members, and that the Association does change its views on what should be done according to factors such as whether GPs have time to do it, and whether the thing proposed is more or less importnat than other things proposed. Clever though we are, we don't react to next years events until we get there. Alas.

I've recently been treating people with Mumps. Quite what "mild ... painful swelling of the testicles" and salivary glands would be is unclear to me, apart from an argument going on...

The last chap but one I saw with Mumps looked like a hamster and walked like John Wayne, he made it home but then was admitted to hospital for several days by a colleague. The last one was just able to stand unassisted, another non-trivial infection.

I've edited a bit, heading toward a more NPV in some things and adjusting temporal flow in causation (see above). THis is spare

(“Since mumps and its complications are very rarely serious there is little indication for the routine use of mumps vaccine”. ). By 1987/8 just prior to the introduction to the United Kingdom of the MMR vaccine on 1st October 1988 this recommendation had been altered to "Mumps vaccine is not at present recommended for routine use in the UK" . By 1989 the recommendation had been dropped and not replaced. It instead stated "See under MMR vaccine ..." and makes no recommendation of its own, stating in line with the then new general health policy "Health authorities will have an obligation to ensure that every child has received MMR vaccine by the time of entry to primary school, unless there is a valid contra-Indication, parental refusal, or laboratory evidence of previous infection. Vaccination records should be checked; where there is no record of MMR vaccination or where the child has received single-antigen measles vaccine, parents will be advised that their children should receive MMR vaccine." ). Midgley (talk · contribs)

Thanks Adrian, I can quite agree with that. JFW | T@lk 00:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

There is a surprise. Dr Midgley was a vocal proponent of vaccination on the BMJ website, so I believe. Vaccinators always have vaccine disease stories, what they don't tell you is the fact they had probably been vaccinated (most would have had MMR)--try and get vaccine status from them and you will find they never look into that, which tells a story---even they admitted one mumps vaccine was completely useless, even though used for years, probably for decades. One study in Switzerland found 75% of mumps cases had been vaccinated! Also they 'forget' about all of the vaccine damaged children from mumps vaccine, the last MMR vaccine was withdrawn when the mumps component, Urabe, was found to be causing meningitis. Have a look at this story and see which you prefer, mumps or meningitis , bearing in mind the vaccine wouldn't have prevented mumps, and bearing in mind there is a large body of opinion that mumps is a BENEFICIAL disease. If you think they are putting kids before profit, ask them why they are still selling that unsafe Urabe vaccine to third world countries 15 years after it was withdrawn here? Perhaps Dr Midgley would explain that, third world children are even less immune to vaccines, most being malnourished and consequently immune deficient? 86.128.169.252 08:24, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

alas, I can't work out what if anything is being said here. Or by whom. Midgley 00:18, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

It's quite simple really, the vaccine is unsafe and ineffective, and the disease is safe and beneficial if handled properly. I have put it here for anyone interested . If you can show me how to get a login name then lets go for that if it makes you happy. 86.128.169.252 11:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Regrettably, if User Midgley let kids catch mumps then he would not have adults in his surgery walking like John Wayne with faces like hamsters or needing hospitalisation. Kids would just have mild cases of mumps (at least 30 percent will have no symptoms whatsoever) and develop lifetime immunity. But as a strident proponent of mumps vaccination he chose to remove the quote “Since mumps and its complications are very rarely serious there is little indication for the routine use of mumps vaccine”. ). So much claims to NPOV contributions - looks like he chooses to remove some attempt at balance and make the page POV. So why do all these geniuses want to use Misplaced Pages to provide inaccurate information to the world? 81.111.172.198 05:48, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Stop making personal attacks, 81.111.172.198, such as referring to people as "vaccinators" (which coming from you is a personal attack). Deal with the issues. I have no problem with citing BNF #11. Please tell me why known complications of mumps should not be mentioned in the intro. We can work on this article in a collaborative fashion if you calmly and without further name-calling list the points you have problems with. We can do another RFC if you so desire. Say, why can't you get a login name? JFW | T@lk 10:01, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Referring to people as 'vaccinators' isn't a personal attack, unlike 'anti-vaccinator' which has a slide attached to it as per Word Game, in that you are meant to go down the preset thinking to believe 'anti-vaccinators' are paranoid, conspiracy nuts, or worse--Barbara Loe Fisher points out this ploy . Labelling you as a 'vaccinator' is to remove your attempt to make out you are unbiased over vaccination, as the Chinese Proverb says: "The beginning of wisdom is to call things by the right names." I am just removing your cloak of impartiality, which you find annoying. Your attempt to deflect this fact into "personal attack" was to be expected. You may even be fooling yourself into thinking you aren't a 'vaccinator'. You would have to search far and wide to find a medical doctor who wasn't a vaccinator, unless you went to whale.to. 86.128.169.252 11:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I do not claim being impartial. You're playing the word game just as bad. Calling people "vaccinators" is a word game. Just because I am licenced to prescribe vaccines and would if was professionally required does not make me a vaccinator. That's a plain strawman and it obscures the issues. But I asked 81.111.172.198 for a list of objections, and I agreed to collaborate nicely. Your attempts to polarise are actually just annoying. (Cue to another conspiracy theory and name-calling by John.) JFW | T@lk 13:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

This page is not neutral. User Jfdwolff keeps on reverting correctly made edits. Irrespective of what others do to ensure the page is correct. She and her collaborators simply revert text which sets the record straight.

Further, the amendments by User Midgeley to remove text that demonstrated the mildness of mumps and the lack of any need for medical intervention was embarrassing for User Midgeley and the British Medical Association of which he admits membership. This demonstrates partiality of the BMA to follow the British government line. This is despite medical interventions which they have previously admitted are unnecessary then being promoted by their members like User Midgeley.

The BMA have been well rewarded with large pay rises for British doctors in the recent pay bargaining on behalf of their members. This even includes recommending Hepatitis B vaccination for babies when there is no threat to babies from Hepatitis B but there is a proven threat of multiple sclerosis, which has recently been demonstrated in the French vaccine damage litigation and published in a peer reviewed medical publication. 81.111.172.198 (talk · contribs)

Numerous personal attacks by 81.111.172.198 (talk · contribs) and 86.128.169.252 (talk · contribs) removed as per Misplaced Pages policy Misplaced Pages:Remove personal attacks. JFW | T@lk 21:11, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

81.111.172.198 has again not listed specific problems, despite my offer to work on a consensus version. I have removed numerous personal attacks involving myself by 81.111.172.198 and John. I think I'll go and do something nicer than fight over a nonsignificant self-limiting illness. So long, boys. JFW | T@lk 21:20, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Text asserts. Not demonstrates. (and vocal, is if I recall my English correctly, of the voice, not in print or text - if we are to name things correctly.) This is the Mumps page, not the Hepatitis page. As times change, so do the best things to do, and so do recommendations of them. Someone is confusing the relationship between the BMA (the association of most British doctors including the public health ones) and the government. On rather a lot of matters, the government asks doctors for advice, and from time to time takes it. It doesn't seem strange or embarrassing that when we decide that immunisation against a particular disease is indicated the government follows and makes it public policy. Rather sensible. And yes, it is nice to be paid for work (actually the changes in the current contract seem likely to reduce immunisation target payments for many practices, the additional services bought from us are mainly around management of chronic diseases - but that again is really a matter for a different page altogether. Midgley 01:38, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The only mistake I ever made on this page was daring to suggest that (1) mumps, although a mild illness, may have complications, (2) the NPOV tag should not be placed without at least nominal discussion about the content. This has angered 81.111.172.198 and led to a wild goose chase around Misplaced Pages. I think it is rather ludicrous of 81.111.172.198 to try verify my credentials. Even if I was not a doctor I would be allowed to edit medical pages on Misplaced Pages. This actually amounts to harrasment, and 81.111.172.198 is now blocked for a few days. It's all getting a bit sad.

All we've been getting here from 81.111.172.198 has been aggression. When I asked for some points for discussion (11 Dec) there was some conspiracy theorising by John and another regurgitation from 81.111.172.198. Needless to say I don't expect there to be a change upon 81.111.172.198's return, but one can silently hope. JFW | T@lk 11:31, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Excuse me but the aggression you got from me was calling you a vaccinator, as I recall. That would be open to debate, I'd have thought. And saying 'conspiracy theory' is just reverting to ad hominem, logical fallacy etc. It is obvious to me that you allopaths/vaccinators are going to suppress information critical to vaccination, which in this case is the argument that you have made mumps more dangerous to 'sell' the mmr vaccine. There is plenty of evidence for this if you look in old textbooks before the vaccine came out. Same with measles & chickenpox. That is before we get into the effectiveness of the mumps vaccine (some were 100% ineffective, and in one study 75% of mumps cases had been vaccinated). But I can't waste too much time talking when it wont make any difference to the mumps page, as editing is in the hands of vaccinators. As to the 'agression' of 198, that is open to debate, you are being judge and jury, and banishing him to the cells when his opinion upsets you. I wish I could do that to the wife! john 15:01, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I never accused you of aggression John. The page already mentions that until 1987 several professional organisation did not recommend the vaccine. What else do you want? And the "domination by vaccinators" is your perception, yourself being judge and jury on this matter - just go ahead and make one NPOV edit and we'll see if there is domination here. JFW | T@lk 17:22, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

"Numerous personal attacks" is agression by any definition. Not sure what NPOV is but removing all whale.to links by 3 allopaths including yourself, is allopath domination, I would have thought. And removing the text supplied by 198 is another example. I haven't even bothered to supply text yet, for obvious reasons. john 17:42, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

The purpose of declinking to links to whale.to is to keep the discussion focused on the issue at hand rather than be diverted by the other content on whale.to (as amplified previously on Talk:MMR vaccine. Andrew73 18:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

That doesn't make any sense, pretext springs to mind. Who is being diverted? Children? The only reason anyone would be diverted is because you keep mentioning the other subjects on whale.to! john 22:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I did not remove text by 198 - I replaced it with more accurate content. Why haven't you bothered to supply text? It is a better idea than slapping your URLs around. JFW | T@lk 19:01, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Remove/replace is the same thing in my world. More accurate content would be debatable (a euphamism for allopath beliefs), if I recall the text in question. Text takes time to write, and I can't imagine any text would last long, so I would waste more time. And I have my opinions written up on whale.to, so linking would be a more sensible approach, maybe under 'the alternative view' for example, but that is too threatening to vaccinators. You can't take the alternative viewpoint. john 22:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

The point of Misplaced Pages is to have WP:NPOV text in the end, rather than it be a collection of external links (unless you prefer to have Misplaced Pages segregated into pro-vaccinator, pro-allopath text and anti-vaccinator, anti-allopath external links)! Andrew73 22:41, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

That maybe the point of Misplaced Pages in a perfect world, but that doesn't take into account the reality of medical politics, in that you allopaths control the text sections, so who wants to waste time writing text to have it rejected? So I would prefer to have external links and let people do their own thinking. I know that isn't traditional, to let people think for themselves, as they may reject vaccination---and studies show the better educated are the ones who reject vaccines. You could have subheadings termed something like 'the alternative viewpoint', with whale.to links under that. If what you say is true about external links and Wiki why do some pages have 20 or 30, and some are 1/1000 the size of whale, ie pretty trivial and just one document. Whale.to is the largest database of alternative view on vaccination and vaccine disease on the internet, so one link to whale would be all that is required. I admire you effort to find reasons to reject whale.to links but they don't sound convincing. The real reason is obvious. john 16:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't go so far as to say that allopaths "control" the text sections (or would you also lump allopaths into mind control?). And yes, the text does get edited, but there are plenty of articles that include anti-vaccinator viewpionts. Just because some pages have 20-30 links (which probably is excessive) doesn't necessarily justify inclusion of whale.to. Andrew73 17:12, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

So instead of attempting to write WP:NPOV you lament the fate of your URLs on talkpages, accusing your opponents of being vaccinators and allopaths? That makes a lot of sense, john. JFW | T@lk 22:28, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Whatever you want to call it, eg NPOV, no text from me will ever get accepted. Anyway, NPOV sounds great in theory but that is a bit like a page written on God by an agnostic. The only ones qualified to write on God are the mystics, shamans etc, as they experience God, but in an our atheist run world, the atheists show their great tolerance by letting the agnostics write pages for Wiki, if you can see the analogy, fingers crossed. 'Accusing' sounds like you still deny you are a vaccinator and allopath. The denial is quite something to break through for an allopath, I can understand that. I can lead an allopath to the water but I can't make them drink, Shaw put it well "As well consult a butcher on the value of vegetarianism as a doctor on the worth of vaccination." john 16:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Rare, Mild etc

How about having figures, rather than the argument over whether they are rare or common? And listing the organs affected rather than the periodic assertiosn that they symptoms are "mild". THis was in an earlier version...

"Orchitis (swelling of the testes) occurs in 10-20% of infected males, but sterility only rarely ensues; a viral meningitis occurs in about 5% of those infected. In older people, other organs may become involved including the central nervous system, the pancreas, the prostate, the breasts, and other organs."

Can anyone produce a picture of the rash asserted as one of those mild effects BTW? I don't recall seeing one.Midgley 00:38, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

This draws attention away from 1). the evidence the vaccine is ineffective, one study showed 75% of mumps cases had been vaccinated, and the Rubini strain was 100% ineffective. 2). That vitamin C would prevent all ill effects. 3). The vaccine side effects, shown with the last MMR vaccine when the mumps portion caused meningitis. 4). And this MMR causes autism--as numerous independent scientists assert like Dr Rimland, quite apart from thousands of parents. 5). If you have a problem in treating mumps then let the homeopaths, naturopaths and nutritional medical doctors show you how to. 6). That mumps is a beneficial disease, preventing more serious disease later in life. 7). Vaccination interferes with natural imminity causing mumps later in life where it is more serious. 8). Mumps has been made to appear a more serious disease, and when you look into this ploy, chickenpox being the most glaring, it makes one unlikely to trust what a vaccinator such as Midgley has to say, without looking at the evidence and doing your own thinking--looking at old pre-vaccine textbooks is very revealing. I leave Dr Mendelsohn MD to comment: "the chance of sterility from mumps is overrated since in practically every case of mumps orchitis (inflammation of the testes) only one testis is affected, and a man could repopulate the entire world with the other one." john 17:15, 21 December 2005 (UTC)