Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Sandstein (talk | contribs) at 22:36, 29 June 2013 (→Concern: reply, blocking). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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recent undo edit

On the page Oculolinctus under the history of revisions https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Oculolinctus&action=history I saw you removed my edit ( 02:01, 16 June 2013‎ 184.39.151.104 )for not stating a source properly. I have one of the books that is very authoritative on the Fetish subject(some what funny & somewhat you don't want read it after just eating)and have been active in the community for about two decades.

The source information to cite was mentioned in the description of the page change field. I'm just at the point of editing tables right and footnotes still allude me but are on my list to learn. Oculophilia is define as fetish relating and pertaining to the eyes. Oculolinctus aka licking the eye ball is a subset of the fetishes relating to the eye ball. Often times the break out or specific activities and/or people don't get along or mesh well together. A very detailed book on the subject matter is the "Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices" By Love, Brenda viewable at http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Unusual-Practices-Brenda-Love/dp/1569800111/ Which goes in details to the numerous fetishes and objects that people can develop _______-philla to. In addition one website (of many) that contains a list of fetish terminology http://blanketfort.uninhibited.net/fics/kink/kink.html will back up the book.

I need help linking into the book for citing source and hope with information you will re add the information. With a correctly coded link to the source page in the book "Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices" which I'm guessing the best way to source it is to link in from Amazon for creating the footnote correctly?

If not I welcome advice on how to do it better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.39.151.104 (talk) 02:17, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi, please refer to WP:CITE for information on how to cite sources and to WP:MEDRS for special considerations regarding medical topics.  Sandstein  08:29, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Likely sock

I believe I caught User:E4024 socking as User talk:LosPollosHermanos. E4024 wanted to get this picture removed because he doesn't like it and LosPollosHermanos joined Misplaced Pages less then a day later for the sole purpose of supporting the picture removal. E4024 also put one of those welcome tabs on LosPollosHermanos' talk moments later. Also notice how LosPollosHermanos shares E4024's habit of bolding his speech, which is noticeable here. I can give more examples if need be. Also notice how LosPollosHermanos was created shortly before E4024 was going to be blocked, likely as a last resort for one last attack on Armenia articles. I believe the evidence is sufficient. I recommend E4024's block be increased from 1 year to indefinite or permanent.

Oh, and the other users who tried to get the picture deleted for the same reason (not liking it) should be topic banned from Turkish articles. Wouldn't you agree? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 01:20, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi, my talk place is not the best place for these requests. Sockpuppet concerns should be reported at WP:SPI, and topic ban requests, if the requirements are met, at WP:AE (if within the scope of WP:AC/DS) or WP:AN.  Sandstein  08:27, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

What about the second point? All AA2 bans seem to go to you anyway. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 16:25, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

As I said, that's a matter for WP:AE. But in general, just "wanting to get a picture deleted" is not normally sanctionable. It depends on the circumstances, and these can transparently be discussed at the enforcement board.  Sandstein  16:29, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Another topic entirely, but do you know a page that has rules Admins are supposed to follow? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 21:04, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

WP:ADMIN.  Sandstein  21:16, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

And if I see an Admin break these rules, where should I go to report it? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 21:33, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

That's discussed on the page I linked to.  Sandstein  21:42, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Luo Meizhen

You recently closed the articles for deletion discussion on Luo Meizhen, stating that none of the keep options addressed the policy-based delete comments. I provided an extensive policy-based comment in response to the only delete comment that actually addressed policy. All the other delete "votes" we're opinion-based or simply wrong. Please reconsider in the context of the extensive comment I made in the debate. Thanks Wikipeterproject (talk) 05:48, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

You're right, I overlooked your longer comment after reading your "As per OTMF, above" opinion. Yours is the only serious "keep" opinion, but many "delete" opinions aren't much better, so I'm relisting the discussion.  Sandstein  08:23, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! Wikipeterproject (talk) 07:40, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Rumi

I have removed this statement, "It seems that Turks claim themselves as the authors of everything except what they are actually responsible for, such as the Armenian Genocide.Wfgiuliano. I felt it was inappropriate, insulting, anachronistic, and had absolutely nothing to do with Rumi or the Seljuqs of Rum. I did not know if this was enough for Admin intervention/warning, but felt I should make you aware of this. Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:22, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Racial epithets!

Hi, Sandstein. Following your close of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Gora (racial epithet) as "merge", there's been a slow edit war on the merge target's page as editors wishing to implement the consensus clash with editors who insist on a source for every entry. Please could you review the talk page of the list, my talk page, and the edit history and provide us with a third opinion when you've done so? Thanks very much and all the best—S Marshall T/C 21:18, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Concern

Hello Sandstein,

A user who has been topic banned under WP:ARBAA2 has edited an Armenian page. He has broken his ban a few times already...see his/her please. Thank you. Proudbolsahye (talk) 22:50, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

That page doesn't seem to relate to "Armenian–Azerbaijani conflicts", which is the scope of the topic ban.  Sandstein  22:56, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

"Armenian–Azerbaijani conflicts" relates to anything Armenian-Turkish as well. Just ask Mr. Know-It-All. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 23:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I have far better things to be doing at the moment, but I think this merits a response. From WP:AA2: "Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all pages related to Armenia, Azerbaijan, or related ethnic conflicts, broadly interpreted." One doesn't need to be a member of Mensa to know that Armenian-Turkish conflicts are related ethnic disputes. If you don't like this interpretation, your time would be better spent making a request for clarification at WP:RFAR rather than taking swipes at me on other admin's talk page - I will respect whatever ruling the committee makes on the issue. CT Cooper · talk 22:20, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

TheShadowCrow, after looking at the case page, I note that you are subject to an indefinite topic ban "from all articles and discussions covered under ARBAA2". Your comment above violates that ban, in addition to being incivil, as does this one below, and I am blocking you in enforcement of the ban.  Sandstein  22:36, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Another concern

I also wanted to inform you of another person topic banned from AA. NovaSkola has been editing Qarabağ FK continuously. Though you permitted normal non-controversial Azeri football editing, this one in particular is about a club that is named after and from the Nagorno-Karabakh region, and anything about that area is considered an AA topic. He has direcly edited parts about the clubs namesake and history, as can be seen here and here. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 23:40, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi, please use WP:AE to make such reports.  Sandstein  14:26, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

request for assistance

To editor Sandstein, I am contacting you as your views seemed to prevail in recent Arbitration Clarification and Amendment Request (This page was final version of "ACAR" before it was archived). Within that discussion, there were one or two or more parties who noted problems with Dudemanfellabra's behavior, and it was discussed that Dudemanfellabra perhaps should be warned about incivility. Yesterday and today, there is continuing incident going on, involving Orlady, Dudemanfellabra, Nyttend and myself. I would like to request that Dudemanfellabra be formally warned or sanctioned in some way, about this edit, with edit summary "That was probably the most petty and douchiest thing I've ever seen in my life. Grow up.". The wp:CIVIL page specifically prohibits calls to others to "grow up", as obviously insulting; the douche mention is obviously vulgar and it does offend me. I have to go look it up to understand, that it means thoroughly contemptible, and that is what I am being called. However, although I have browsed the civility guidelines and the past arbitrations, I am not clear what I am allowed and not allowed to do at this point. I am exhorted not to comment on other editors, but the distinctions between commenting on editors' behavior vs. editors themselves seem rather unclear in the guidelines and policies and arbitration statements. I consider it possible that others could call for me to be blocked from Misplaced Pages for asking, here, about whether I am allowed to respond to their behavior, because obviously i must be referring to editors or their behavior. Taken to an extreme, this catch-22-ness is impossible to deal with. I need some help, and I believe I should not be blocked for seeking to deal with troublesome behavior that is perhaps taking advantage of past arbitration, etc. So:

1. Hypothetically, if and when parties collude in a tag-team way and repeatedly follow and express contempt and disrespect, what recourse do I have? In particular, am I allowed to open ANI incident reports or RFC/U's or not, which by their nature are to comment on other editors behavior.

2. Could you take a look at wt:NRHP right now (Revision history), and perhaps comment or take some action in a stabilizing way.

sincerely, --doncram 15:27, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Subsequently editor Nyttend has seen fit to give me a "final warning" notice at my Talk page, calling this edit by me a "personal attack", and he has restored my initial comment in the NRHP discussion thread but not my later comment. I don't see mine as a personal attack, but had already removed it anyhow (towards trying to let the discussion there die), and decided to ask for advice here, which I did before receiving Nyttend's warning. Again, if you could comment or take some stabilizing action, I would appreciate it. I note that Nyttend, an administrator taking notice of my offense at the "douchiest" insult, chooses not to warn anyone about that, but rather to find fault with my complaint. I find this profoundly unfair and unpleasant. --doncram 15:56, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi, sorry, it's not clear to me how all of this relates to WP:AE. Could you please provide all relevant links, per WP:GRA?  Sandstein  16:00, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I hoped you would accept a brief statement and direction to wt:NRHP without extensive diffs. Okay, I have revised above to include a link to This page was final version before it was archived the recent Arbitration Clarification and Amendment Request] (let me refer to this as "ACAR"), and I expand somewhat here (more than I hoped to have to do). Within that ACAR, the one or two or more parties who find some degree of issue with Dudemanfellabra's behavior include you, The Devil's Advocate, and Kumioko. In this diff, you evaluated words of Dudemanfellabra (which you quoted) with statement: "While I agree that such comments are uncollegial and confrontative and ought to be avoided, they do focus on a reasonably specific perceived content problem, rather than on Doncram as a person, which is why I would argue they fall short of being sanctionable, at least under our current (regrettably loose, in my view) civility standards." That seems to be setting forth a certain standard on what is acceptable, that limitedness of scope, that specificity, somehow matters. I would tend to agree with the principle you suggest in general, but what if the objectionable behavior is one incident in a series of arguably unnecessary complaints/comments, and if that series continues? I didn't come here for the purpose of arguing at all with you, but consider the same editor, who read your comments, going on soon after to pick out and describe my behavior in an offensive way; is that acceptable? I hope not. Also within the closed ACAR, in this diff, Dudemanfellabra states "... if he just put a little more time and effort into everything he does to make it more presentable and less quick-fix-y, the number of complaints/attacks about/on him would drop off drastically". That seemed to me to be an assertion that complaints/attacks are okay to pursue, while I believe there must be some limits, and I was and am concerned that idea of continuing to attack/complain was not repudiated. Editor The Devils Advocate comments "@Sandstein, did you see the comment Dudeman made? While one could argue that uncivil remarks such as "your trademark quick-fix, let-someone-else-clean-up-my-mess style" are better off ignored, it is quite obscene to suggest that objecting to such remarks is worthy of sanction. I would think the purpose of the probation is to keep Doncram from over-reacting or attacking without prior provocation, not to give anyone he might be in a dispute with a chance to get their licks in with impunity". I won't quote from Kumioko's comments. This should support adequately my assertion that "there were one or two or more parties who noted problems", okay?

Also I note that you stated "Doncram is warned not to approach discussions confrontatively, not to exhibit signs of ownership, not to comment on contributors rather than content, and not to assume bad faith. The editors who are in disputes with Doncram are reminded that these expectations apply to them also. Sandstein 07:54, 4 April 2013 (UTC) (emphasis added), in your closure of an Administrative Enforcement action.

Although I am obviously selective in what I quoted above, I don't dispute the result of the ACAR (which was technically to deny the request by Nyttend), nor do I dismiss the comments and concerns of others such as yourself and AGK and Mathsci and EdJohnston and Thryduulf and NuclearWarfare within the ACAR. Rather, I am seeking advice.

To clarify perhaps, by my original statement above that I "would like to request that Dudemanfellabra be formally warned or sanctioned in some way", I mean mostly that I would like to ask for advice on what forum and how I can request that. E.g., is it your view that I am prohibited from asking that, in every forum?

I am not now notifying all these parties mentioned here, as would clearly be necessary for an ANI or other more formal proceeding, because my point of coming here was to ask you personally for some comment or action. Your views seemed to prevail, were most cited, in the ACAR. I seek your advice about whether, or under what circumstances, and how you feel that I am allowed to comment on the behavior of others, if and when they might engage with incivility against me, for example, contrary to your own advice to them (in the emphasized text above). Please note, I was/am not seeking out confrontation, I am seeking to avoid it, but I don't want to be driven from the project in order to avoid it. And in general, although I disagree with some specifics within Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram, I accept its outcome and I am striving to abide by it. I am, however, beset with some questions of how to deal with cases of following- and negative-type behaviors. I would appreciate a discussion of cases, perhaps phrased as hypothetical cases, and guidance. For example, what if an editor terms an edit of mine as a "personal attack", when I do not agree, where/how am I allowed to dispute that, and perhaps to call the accusation a personal attack itself. I hate this. But anyhow, if you are willing to discuss, online or offline, or you have a suggestion on how I could get guidance from others, please do advise me of that. --doncram 18:14, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

All right... Without having read all of the above due to its length, it appears that you find the conduct of others with which you are in disputes objectionable. You may or may not be right about this, but because the arbitration case contains only remedies concerning you (and another editor not at issue here), but not concerning the editors you are now in a dispute with, I don't see how this dispute can be addressed in the context of WP:AE, other than to discuss any misconduct by you. You will therefore need to use the standard process, WP:DR, and the fora described therein, to resolve this dispute. I hope this helps, but I don't think that I can give more specific advice. Because the specifics of the dispute do not interest me, I ask that you and the people you disagree with do not use my talk page to discuss this further, but rather use each other's talk pages for that purpose.  Sandstein  22:21, 29 June 2013 (UTC)