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(link removed) is clearly continuing his campaign of harassment against Jimbo. He has gotten permission and has uploaded this comic to Commons. First he asks an artist to paint a painting of Jimbo with his unspeakables, and now he is uploading comics where Jimbo is being shat upon. Will he ever stop! 90.191.5.205 (talk) 16:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)]]

(link removed) :) Merry Christmas! - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:56, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Like Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (confer) @ 01:19, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Haha, He should go after the vandal, not Jimbo--Chamith (talk) 05:31, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

I've removed the link as harassment and I strongly recommend that a Commons administrator delete the file on Commons for the same reason. I also recommend that Russavia be dealt with appropriately on other projects as he has been here. Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:04, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

I've removed the other link for the same reason, I'll go over to Commons and see if this can be deleted--5 albert square (talk) 17:09, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Ooookay. How'd this blow up into a shitstorm (pun intended)? Seriously. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:04, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Jimbo, Happy Holydays and the New Year 2015!

Now sorry again that I have a difficult question for you. It is about Draft:Igor Janev. Igor Janev should be classified under WP:NPOL person, since he was Special Adviser of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Macedonia in 2002. See more from data base Macedonian Emigration Agency (national government source:"Специјален советник на Министерот за надворешни работи" in eng. Special Adviser of the Minister of Foreign Affairs) in Macedonian lang. . In any country Special Advisor to the MFA is WP:NPOL by definition of Misplaced Pages. See Special Adviser status.183.86.209.161 (talk) 17:34, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Good first try at an article. Welcome to Misplaced Pages.

The entire process for new people creating new pages is fucked up.

If, instead of following 'best advice', you'd made an account, made 10 edits, and waited 4 days - you could have made a live page, then it'd be very unlikely to be deleted.

The easiest answer is probably to do that now. Otherwise you'll be swamped with well-meaning but largely useless advice.

If I had an account, I'd just make it a live page. That means making a user account and 10 edits (to anything) and waiting 4 days, and I can't be arsed. Maybe you can.

Misplaced Pages politics is bullshit.

Happy Christmas, new person.

Jimbo, in case you read this, please realise that the way 'drafts' (prev AFC) circumvent the prevention of new people making articles (post-Seigenthaler) is killing the wiki; AFC/drafts clearly can't cope with helping new people (check the backlog) - let 'em make articles, and let the (over)keen patrol admin-wannabe's who can't write for shit sort out the mess. Crap gets speedied within minutes because there's a hella lot more people out there who get their kicks from deleting things than making them (and, fair enough, can't write articles). Happy Xmas to you, too; I hope you might listen to this, and make the wiki much more friendly to new users by treating all new articles the same way, instead of the current fucked up 'drafts' v. CSD-warnings etc. 88.104.28.116 (talk) 01:10, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

P.S. I feel sufficiently strongly about the issue that I've made this account, I'll wait 4 days and copy it over to a live article (WADR to the wiki's perceived acceptable practices of links to prior publication).

Maybe Mr. Wales can think about how to fix this for all case, instead of some random annoyed person butting in.

The way new people get their intro to make new articles is really fucked up. Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 01:31, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

If new users ask for help, they might get a response in a couple of weeks - and it'll probably be telling them that the references aren't good enough;

There are 2,826 pending submissions in Category:Pending AfC submissions.

If they ignore 'best advice' and make a user account, 4 days later they can make a live article.

Of course it might then be speedy-deleted if it's utter crap, but if it isn't total crap they'll have a chance to fix it - and people will even help try to find sources (in AFD).

Fundamental problem: More people can use clicky-tools to 'tag for speedy deletion' and 'warn user' etc than can actually help 'em make new pages,

Answer: Treat all new users the same. Let 'em try to make articles, and wikipedia can try to help them.

What a wonderful world it'd be. Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 01:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

This thread from the Wikimedia Stewards Noticeboard archives may be of relevance here: . There were concerns that Janev is not as notable as was claimed. Articles on Janev have twice been deleted from the English Misplaced Pages. I think it is safe to assume that the sources in any new article on Janev will receive particular scrutiny. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:44, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

If it was made live, it'd likely survive AFD. As a draft, the new person just gets a shitstorm of rejection. Do you disagree?

(There is more to this than this article; it's really just a typical example). Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:02, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

It would be more likely to survive (as a draft or otherwise) if it had properly-formatted references. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:06, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps more importantly:

I made this account so that, in 4 days, I can copy the article live. Not to really make a point, but because - having discussed the specific case - I feel a need to give it a fair try.

The specific article isn't really the reason I'm intervening here; it's because of the blatant way that new articles are treated very differently from drafts.

In an ideal world, Misplaced Pages users would help all new users with their early articles.

Real world: there are not enough good editors to do so.

That's fine; that's just the way things are. OK, so, given that...we should at least treat everyone the same way.

Currently there are two very disparate systems;

A) DRAFTS - wait 2 or 3 weeks, get a review. Likely get rejected for 'lack of sources' with spam-template messages. At least you get some idea how to fix it.

B) Make live article. If it's complete crap, it gets speedy-deleted. Fair enough.

The problem I have is, a large number of good users spend their time trying to help A. But sadly, A is snowed-under, and full of spam.

A great many good-potential new users use B and get no real help at all, just spammed warnings (CSD, etc).

Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:09, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Andy, It would be more likely to survive (as a draft or otherwise) if it had properly-formatted references - so, fix them! That's easy for experienced users, but super-hard for new ones.

That is the entire point here.

New users need help, not spam templates.

"properly-formatted references" is just wikipedia internal crap. Formatting is just meh. And stops new users getting involved. Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:11, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I cannot fix references for material I cannot read. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:25, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

(Assuming you mean because it is in Macedonian)

Sure Andy, so, if you came across this as a live article elsewhere you'd leave it to others, right?

That's what I mean about this double-standard;

Live articles are 'good until proven bad',

drafts are 'bad until proven good'. Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:30, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

If I came across this article, knowing as I do that an article on the same subject had already been deleted twice, I'd find someone who could read the sources to see if they supported the claims made. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. And that's cool.

But, because it is just a draft, it doesn't get that treatment. It just gets 'rejected', so it is never even evaluated! Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:40, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Igor the facetious xmas bunny - NOT HERE. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:14, 28 December 2014 (UTC)