Misplaced Pages

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January 2025

Your recent edits could give Misplaced Pages contributors the impression that you may consider legal or other "off-wiki" action against them, or against Misplaced Pages itself. Please note that making such threats on Misplaced Pages is strictly prohibited under Misplaced Pages's policies on legal threats and civility. Users who make such threats may be blocked. If you have a dispute with the content of any page on Misplaced Pages, please follow the proper channels for dispute resolution. Please be sure to comment on content, not contributors, and where possible make specific suggestions for changes supported by reliable independent sources and focusing especially on verifiable errors of fact. Thank you. Liz 07:17, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages: check out the Teahouse!

Hello! अधिवक्ता संतोष, you are invited to the Teahouse, a forum on Misplaced Pages for new editors to ask questions about editing Misplaced Pages, and get support from peers and experienced editors. Please join us! Liz 07:18, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Notice of Discussion

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:45, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

What is the point of notifying me, when 8 minutes later I am blocked without being allowed to have my say on that page. Are you also aware that the time you posted this message was well past midnight in India when most decent people are asleep ? अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 09:17, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

January 2025

There are legitimate ways to pursue grievances about article content, threatening legal action is not one of them. While we cannot stop you from pursuing legal action, you cannot make legal threats on Misplaced Pages, nor can you edit if you have a legal action underway. You can pursue grievances in the courts of your country or on Misplaced Pages using Misplaced Pages processes, but not both simultaneously. You will need to commit to not making legal threats on Misplaced Pages in order to be unblocked.

If you are connected to this person, that must be disclosed, see WP:COI and WP:PAID. 331dot (talk) 21:05, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Before blocking me, you ought to have first considered the INEFFICIENCIES of your grievance redressal system. As advised by Wikimedia Legal, I posted a courteous specific edit request on the data subject's talk page, which went unanswered for over 3 days. This is twice the time (36 hours) prescribed in India's laws to take down defamatory content. I have clearly specified in that request that I am an advocate who had previously complained to the Foundation Legal team about the said defamation/libel. In such circumstance, because I wish to complain about clear and obvious defamation remaining in Mr. Ahuja's article as well as defamation in another 8 more such articles of Indian politicians or judges inserted by anonymous and unverified users, either unblock me or else provide me the particulars of this website's NODAL GRIEVANCE OFFICER who is resident in India so that the impugned content can be taken down in 36 hours prescribed in India's laws. As I have mentioned elsewhere, if your website cannot comply with India's laws then do not defame Indian data subjects whose articles have been created without their approval on your platform. There is no legal action underway as yet and it shall not be required if the defamation(s) are removed promptly upon notice and within 36 hours in any event. And for the record, whereas I have not made any "legal threat" on your website, I have myself been the subject of published abuse by your users which have a chilling effect and which are detrimental to my own professional reputation, and which I am hereby requesting to be deleted promptly. अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 09:09, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is physically located in the United States and is not subject to Indian laws.

If you're saying that you followed the advice at WP:LIBEL and were directed to post here first, I suggest you go back to Wikimedia Legal and describe your grievances with how Misplaced Pages resolves grievances. If they see a gross error in process here or decide to apply Indian laws, they will do so.

Note that one statement you said was a problem has been removed- the process is working, but this is a volunteer project where people all over the world do what they can, when they can. It takes time to do, and sometimes it takes more than 36 hours, though especially with violations of WP:BLP people try to do it as quickly as possible. If you're willing to work with the community to address your grievances, you need to stop discussing all the legal steps you can take and threatening legal action.

There is no staff person to handle grievances outside of community processes other than Legal(which only does in very rare cases). If you're saying Indian law requires Misplaced Pages to have such a person resident in India, again, you need to take that up with Legal.

Your statement "There is no legal action underway as yet and it shall not be required if the defamation(s) are removed promptly upon notice and within 36 hours" is in and of itself a legal threat, leaving aside statements like this and this.

The post you link to is hardly abusive. It's a simple statement. 331dot (talk) 10:10, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

It is all a question of perception. What I convey as defamation/libel requiring deletion you perceive to be a legal threat. What I perceive as abuse you perceive as merely a statement (of what? fact ??). It is incorrect that Misplaced Pages is not subject to India's laws (or is exclusively subject to USA laws). If that was so, then WMF would not be engaging top lawyers to defend their user actions before Indian courts and correcting the misdeeds of their volunteer unpaid editors (eg. Tuhin Sinha, Asian News International, RG Kar rape/murder victim etc.) when they write about Indian data subjects being defamed. Now, do you intend to persist in blocking my account so that I cannot specify further defamation of Indian living persons for correction/deletion as WMF Legal requested me to do? You will notice that I have adopted an informal tone throughout my conversations on these social media talk pages. अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 11:20, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

India cannot enforce its laws inside the United States, at least not without sending the Indian Army through the United States Army to do so. It can take action against elements of the WMF in India, or block access to Misplaced Pages to its billion-plus citizens. In the name of democracy, free speech and free press, I would hope that they wouldn't want to harm their citizens by withholding the mostly good information here from them, but that's up to the Indian courts or government.

Not every post that is in error is a deliberate act of defamation, by someone intending to do so. Usually it's just people fooling around, engaging in vandalism, not intending to harm someone. Maybe in India that's a distinction without a difference, but that's not the case in the US where intent matters. We work as quickly as possible, per WP:BLP, to correct information about living people when identified and to remove vandalism when identified. The tools that allow anyone to edit also allow errors and vandalism to be addressed as soon as possible.

You can appeal your block as the block notice instructs, but it's unlikely to succeed unless you are prepared to agree to stop directly or indirectly threatening legal action or using discussion of Indian law as a cudgel to obtain a desired result. (it doesn't sound like you are.) If you hadn't done so in the first place, you might have had many more errors or what you term defamation corrected by now. Your other option is to go back to Legal and either demand they lift the block or at least carry out your requests. 331dot (talk) 11:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

You probably think we don't want to see errors corrected- that's not true. We do, and I do- but it needs to be done the right way. 331dot (talk) 11:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

You are correct. There is no way that professionally qualified lawyers from India can publicly interact with some anarchic and abusive "community" members of this website. Our future demands for takedowns/corrections shall be through the WP:LIBEL email ID and/or WMF Legal email ID exclusively pointing to this talk page. अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 14:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

We as a community do not seek legal action. All we are asking is that you do not use any of your legal terms while conversing with us and that you ask us to remove specific content instead of just saying "libellous content". I sincerely want to request you to stop taking things in a negative and 'lawsuit'-like manner. I understand the block may have frustrated/annoyed you, but continuing speaking like this isn't going to help you or me. Please cooperate and we can solve this issue. Other than that, you can point to this talk page, I do not mind. (and yes, I know you removed my post) TNM101 (chat) 15:16, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Not everyone can afford a lawyer, the system we have in place is intended so that anyone can simply request a poorly sourced statement about a living person be removed, and it will be removed without needing to learn how to prepare and send legal papers to WMF, because we care about their dignity from an ethical perspective and not because we are afraid of the law. I hope this helps, and apologies for the inconvenience you went through! Kenneth Kho (talk) 20:17, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Remove all libellous posts about Mr Ahuja (Govinda) from the page history also.

Per your policy WP:LIBEL, please remove all libellous posts about Mr Ahuja (Govinda) from the page history also. अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 14:50, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure who "our" is(are you an Indian lawyer representing clients?), but since you are seemingly not going to appeal your block, and are choosing to address your grievances via emails to the WMF instead of community processes(which worked once, and can again) there is nothing more to do here. You only have access to this page while blocked to request to be unblocked. 331dot (talk) 15:02, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

By "your policy" I mean the policy of the Misplaced Pages in English website It is a Misplaced Pages policy to immediately delete libelous material when it has been identified. Page revisions containing libelous content should also be removed from the page history. Libelous material (otherwise known as defamation) is reasonably likely to damage a person or company's reputation and could expose Misplaced Pages to legal consequences.. I am pointing this out to illustrate that the defamation I complained about has not been fully excised. I can also cite a German court judgment or 2 after which WMF had to remove the page history libels also (but some people would consider that to be a legal threat).अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 15:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Just as I cannot directly impose Indian law on this website, similarly this website cannot impose US law on myself or Mr. Ahuja to adhesively agree to this website's (sometimes farcical) policies merely to lodge our grievances. अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 15:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

If you are a lawyer representing clients, the Terms of Use require that to be disclosed, see WP:PAID. It's true that US law does not apply to people outside of the US, but Misplaced Pages is certainly free to follow its own policies and ask that visitors to its website follow its policies.

If you wish to choose the longer, more involved path to addressing your grievances, that's up to you. As I said, had you not made legal threats, you could have had many of your grievances addressed by now. All we need you to do is cooperate with our processes and policies. 331dot (talk) 15:32, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Unblock request

अधिवक्ता संतोष (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

After extensive discussion on this talk page, I am prepared to attempt to accommodate myself to those aspects of this Website's policies which are not injurious to myself or my client's interests while reporting libelous content for deletion/correction per WP:LIBEL. This includes using only as much legal language as is necessary to illustrate certain aspects of Misplaced Pages's policies with legal considerations if so required. अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 15:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Decline reason:

I am declining your unblock request because it does not address the reason for your block, or because it is inadequate for other reasons. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that

• the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Misplaced Pages, or
• the block is no longer necessary because you:
  1. understand what you have been blocked for,
  2. will not continue to cause damage or disruption, and
  3. will make useful contributions instead.

Please read the guide to appealing blocks for more information. UtherSRG (talk) 15:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Also, just a heads up, you should probably also agree to disclose that you have been paid or have a conflict of interest with the article on your user page, in accordance with the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use TNM101 (chat) 15:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

I cannot edit my user page now. will do that if unblocked. अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 15:56, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for agreeing TNM101 (chat) 16:04, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Please read WP:PAID#How to disclose and fix the disclosure you put on your user page. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:28, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

• It shouldn't be necessary to invoke Indian law to ask that incorrect information, vandalism, or even deliberate defamation be removed. All that is required is a polite, civil request to the effect of "I represent this individual and I am requesting that the following incorrect information/vandalism be removed per the Biographies of Living Persons policy", describing the specific passage or passages of concern. The best way to do that is via the edit request wizard. I will remove the block if you agree to refrain from discussion about what Indian law requires in your requests and agree to not make legal threats. 331dot (talk) 16:12, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

  All right अधिवक्ता संतोष (talk) 16:17, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

  Okay. I will remove the block after I complete this message. When you go to the edit request wizard, click on "I'm being paid to edit". On the next screen is a means for you to post a paid declaration on your user page(if you don't do it beforehand), and also instructions on making your request. Requests should concisely explain the specific change being requested(i.e. "remove XYZ text" or "replace XYZ text with ABC text"). If performed correctly, your request will be placed in a category that many users monitor, and a volunteer will review your request. Please ask if you have questions. 331dot (talk) 16:25, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

  Also, once again, remember that we are all just volunteers here. While we will do what we can, we do not work to a schedule. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:37, 15 January 2025 (UTC)